topic Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI in LabVIEW

Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Cheaterlow — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 17:30:06 GMT

Hello follow Raspberry Fans and Labview Cracks,

even though everyone in the Forums (here as well as in Win10 Forums and the Raspi Forums) told it is not possible to run a Labview application directly on the PI (with a "Head"), i've managed to do it and the performance from my pov is acceptable.

Short How to

Win10 19H2, WOR Project, "handinstall" the packages of the installer

I will make a proper "How to" when its working properly.

Now to the problems, but first some things to know:

The Win10 64 ARM uses an emulator to run x86 apps, which is according to the Windows forums capable to emulate SSE2 insctructions.

HWInfo32 also showed MMX, SSE and SSE2 as green (7.02)

First i used LV2020. The installation of the run time was a bit tricky but i could manage it. But the .exe than give back an Error related to SSE2.

Than is used a LV2014 Installation (used the same vi saved as downgrade vom 2020) and build it with disabled SSE2 optimization and it WORKED !

The Question now is: can i disable the SSE2 stuff somehow (i tryed already via XML editing in the .lvproject-->nope, the option is gone in advanced since LV2017...) in the LV2020 app builder?

How does Labview figure out, if SSE2 instruction is supported--> i might can trick it so its think its supported (maybe).

Any other suggestions are also welcome. (P.S. I know of the Linx toolkit and the web module solution)

Best regards

Cheaterlow

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

billko — Sun, 11 Apr 2021 20:27:00 GMT

Maybe NI should listen in on this topic. You may be creating a roadmap for them!

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Tue, 13 Apr 2021 12:15:27 GMT

@Cheaterlow wrote:
How does Labview figure out, if SSE2 instruction is supported--> i might can trick it so its think its supported (maybe).

Any other suggestions are also welcome. (P.S. I know of the Linx toolkit and the web module solution)

Probably (haven't tested it), but (also probably) not officially.

If you turn on scripting and the secret scripting options, 3 SSE compiler options show up. There's also a VI flag for SSE, but that probably won't suffice or it would be impractical.

I've seen other successful attempts of 'a' LabVIEW exe running on a RPi under Windows. I think the problem is running LabVIEW development on it.

A more detailed instruction would be nice.

Getting GPIO working would be nice.

I keep getting stuck in getting the RPi image... I subscribed to the insider program, but it keeps telling me to subscribe. I'm not sure if that's still an issue.

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

rolfk — Wed, 14 Apr 2021 07:54:12 GMT

@Cheaterlow wrote:

How does Labview figure out, if SSE2 instruction is supported--> i might can trick it so its think its supported (maybe).

That is usually done by executing the cpuid assembly instruction and evaluating the returned register values for certain flags. There is no hope to fake this; unless your x86 simulator does properly emulate this AND implement the actual SSE functionality, there won't be any hope.

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Wed, 14 Apr 2021 07:49:41 GMT

wiebe@CARYA wrote:
I've seen other successful attempts of 'a' LabVIEW exe running on a RPi under Windows. I think the problem is running LabVIEW development on it.

Windows 10 and LabVIEW on Raspberry Pi4 - YouTube and Labview for raspberry pi 3 - NI Community.

That is on a RPi3. Also, the more people try, succeed and document it, the better.

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Cheaterlow — Wed, 14 Apr 2021 17:30:58 GMT

So i tryed several things and it looks like it wont work with a newer LV version.

Can anybody tell if :

app.compiler.sse1 code generation

app.compiler.sse2 code generation

app.compiler.sse runtime optimization

are still considered during application building?

Thank you

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 08:01:47 GMT

Are you getting the SSE error? Or another error?

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Cheaterlow — Thu, 15 Apr 2021 11:54:22 GMT

Yes i'm still getting SSE error

回應： Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

hugoshih — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 09:59:55 GMT

You should think about why other people don't want to discuss this issue in this forum?

回應： Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

rolfk — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 10:11:32 GMT

@hugoshih wrote:

You should think about why other people don't want to discuss this issue in this forum?

I can tell you why I haven't. I don't have time to tackle yet another project besides my work, family and other LabVIEW interests. 😁 Also for my own personal feelings, this exercise has little other merits than to show off how well one can hack things. It's to involved and complicated to be a viable option for Joe average to use. Even if NI should decide to create a fully supported option for this, it would be a one time thing, not something they could and would support long term as it is simply to much effort to keep that running over the years.

Don't suspect conspiracies, when there are other much more profane reasons for something. 😁

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

YOM1106 — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 04:59:16 GMT

Necesito de tu ayuda, me podrias explicar como lo hiciste, estoy tratando de usarlo para mi proyecto de tesis, pero no he conseguido hacerlo, te ruego me ayudes tengo poco tiempo y a la fecha no he encontrado como hacer que en el raspberry pi corran todos los programas de labview

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

LLindenbauer — Wed, 07 Sep 2022 08:00:11 GMT

@YOM1106 wrote:

Necesito de tu ayuda, me podrias explicar como lo hiciste, estoy tratando de usarlo para mi proyecto de tesis, pero no he conseguido hacerlo, te ruego me ayudes tengo poco tiempo y a la fecha no he encontrado como hacer que en el raspberry pi corran todos los programas de labview

Machine Translation
I need your help, could you explain to me how you did it, I am trying to use it for my thesis project, but I have not been able to do it, please help me I have little time and to date I have not found how to make all of them run on the raspberry pi labview programs

Please open a new thread and explain what you want to do in detail. Please eplain if - and why - it is necessary to use a raspberry pi with Windows and LabVIEW in exactly that configuration. If you just want to control some other device, there are probably other options.

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Startleman — Sun, 29 Jan 2023 01:26:54 GMT

I think this is a potentially an important subject (not simply an exercise in "hacking") simply because Microsoft Windows 11 on ARM is projected to take up a significant proportion of the laptop space in the coming years (e.g. 20% by 2025). Even though it's not that common, any applications developed on LabView for deployment may run into Windows compatibility issues (more and more).

As such, I've been trying to get a built application to run on Windows 11 ARM, and have succeeded in getting a "basic" app to run using the following steps:

Build standalone application using LabView 2016 (32 bit) and be sure to uncheck "use SSE optimizations" under the Advanced Tab.

Build installer and include 2016 Runtime Engine in build.

Deploy to Windows 11 ARM (using a .zip or self extracting .zip)

It is unclear whether this will work with a more complex app that might include links to dll's and such, but at least the proof of concept seems to work 🙂

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 14:37:34 GMT

Just to throw more wood on the fire:

QD,"Execute:SSE Runtime Optimization",CTRL+SHIFT+B should get you that property, even if scripting magic is off.

You'd have to 'VI Server' this for all VIs in a build, I guess.

This might be a way to get it done in >LV16. SSE could be a requirement of the RTE though...

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Cheaterlow — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 17:50:52 GMT

Thanks for the hint.

But even if you disable the following option:

The error is still shown.

I've tried several more or less dodgy ways to disabled the SSE option, but the actual compile sub programm deep within the labview compile process has this option missing. Therefore is not possible to do it from my point of view...

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

rolfk — Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:23:24 GMT

Yes, I seem to remember that the LabVIEW 2017 compiler actually lost the ability to disable code generation for SSE for floating point arithmetic. It may actually have something to do with the used LLVM compiler. Disabling SSE and SSE2 for AMD64 is considered unneeded since every AMD64 compatible CPU has guaranteed SSE/SSE2 support (except it seems the x86/x64 emulation in the Windows ARM build). And it seems LLVM eventually removed that possibility altogether.

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 09:51:02 GMT

This is a long (long, long) shot... Probably another red haring.

For a project (LV18) I have to set MKL_DEBUG_CPU_TYPE = 5 as a system variable.

Apparently, this fixes some compatibility between Intel and ARM CPUs. For me it's mostly lvanlys.dll that won't work properly if this variable isn't set.

See performance - When you have an AMD CPU, can you speed up code that uses the Intel-MKL? - Stack Overflow

This comment in that thread:

"The detail, that the slow non-intel path uses SSE, while the faster path (triggered by MKL_DEBUG_CPU_TYPE=5) uses AVX2 is probably worth mentioning...", makes me thing there is a slim change it makes some difference.

You don't mention what version you used. For my situation, this should be fixed from LV20 on higher. The variable might still do something useful when simulating Intel on a ARM...

Again, a long shot... But hopefully a quick test?

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

Cheaterlow — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 11:37:21 GMT

I had to google how to set this up right. Please correct me if i have done this wrong.

open cmd and type: "MKL_DEBUG_CPU_TYPE=5", leave the cmd open.

Restart Labview and compile it again.

The outcome is the same iam still getting the 0x464 with SSE issue.

Btw. iam using LV2020.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions 🙂

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

wiebe@CARYA — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 13:27:24 GMT

@Cheaterlow wrote:

I had to google how to set this up right. Please correct me if i have done this wrong.

open cmd and type: "MKL_DEBUG_CPU_TYPE=5", leave the cmd open.

Restart Labview and compile it again.

The outcome is the same iam still getting the 0x464 with SSE issue.

Btw. iam using LV2020.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions 🙂

How to Set Environment Variables in Windows 11/10 (aomeitech.com)

You can add a key to the registry as well:

HowTo: Set an Environment Variable in Windows - Command Line and Registry - Dowd and Associates

Re: Labview on Win 10 ARM 64 on Raspberry PI

rolfk — Tue, 31 Jan 2023 13:56:59 GMT

You are all barking up the wrong tree here. The real problem is that the LabVIEW built in compiler (based on LLVM) has lost the ability to generate code that will NOT use SSE/SSE2/AVX instructions with version 2017.

The MKL issue is entirely separate from that and in fact the opposite. lvanlys.dll is a thin wrapper around the Intel MKL library. This library can correctly detect what Intel CPU is present and enable different algorithm code paths that make maximal use of the CPU features. But this detection logic fails (not very surprisingly) with certain modern AMD CPUs. And instead of falling back to the minimum possible support such as only Pentium features, it hangs up in the detection routine. Setting the environment variable tells the detection routine that the system knows better what CPU features to use than its own detection logic and simply skips most of the detection altogether. Setting this environment variable to a value of 5, tells the MKL basically: "Don't worry I know that the CPU supports SSE, SSE2, AVX and AVX2 and you don't have to try to detect that. Just go ahead and assume I tell you the truth!"

On an x86 emulation in Windows ARM, this would be exactly the wrong thing to do. However, since the compiled LabVIEW code can't even initialize as it tries to setup the non-existing SSE registers, this is a moot point anyways.