topic Re: hiding front panel data in LabVIEW

hiding front panel data

oyester — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:01:24 GMT

I haven't seen this discussed yet and I hope I can explain it correctly. Many times I have a lot of front panel controls (and indicators) that I don't want the user to see. Making them invisible is not optimum for me because, if the subVI is complicated and I am in development or debugging mode, it is hard to find all of the hidden controls and indicators. Also invisible stuff very often ends up behind visible stuff and its a pain finding it and dragging it out into the open again. I generally solve this problem by putting all of my variables on a tab structure, with one page containing the user interface and the other pages hidden - unless my debug flag is set. My problem is this. If I have to print that page, the size of the tab control determines the extent of what gets printed. So if my user interface is much smaller than the size of the tab, then I get a plot with a lot of useless white space in it. Does anyone know how to do this better?

Re: hiding front panel data

Ben — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 20:32:34 GMT

Hi oyester,

I know of no work-around that can help you. The only thing I can recomend is to stop using controls/indicators that are not intended for user consumption.

Sorry,

Ben

PS: Most LV apps do not need extra controls and indictors to work properly. If you want to know more about other methods say so.

Message Edited by Ben on 11-02-2009 02:32 PM

Re: hiding front panel data

GregFreeman — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:02:32 GMT

As for the indictors, why not remove them all and when you debug just probe the wires in the block diagram to determine the values in them?

Re: hiding front panel data

rex1030 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:19:10 GMT

I dont know if this is what you need, but you can dynamically change the visibility of a control/indicator. It is not good practice to have your controls and indicators disappear and reappear while your program is running (your VI is not a magic show) but I think it is probably what you are looking for.

Right mouse click on a control or indicator. Go to create>property node > visible. Once placed on the block diagram, you right click on the property node and hit 'change to write'. If you write a constant false to this it your control will disappear. You would do this for each of the controls/indicators you are trying to hide then group them together on the block diagram and write the same constant to all of them.

I do this sometimes for debugging because disable diagraming a control or indicator doesnt hide it. I use this during development and then clean all this up before 'release'.

As Ben said, this isnt exactly awesome programming practice, but i have found it to be kind of useful.

Message Edited by rex1030 on 11-02-2009 04:19 PM

Re: hiding front panel data

stevem181 — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 21:38:55 GMT

Hi oyester,

I have at times encountered the need to provide an advanced user mode where more features are available and in another case I had two entirely different front panels for the same vi.

Here is how I did this:

1) Create two decorations of different colors (for example a raised frame). These define the two areas you want visible

2) When the vi starts - search through the decorations to get a reference to each of the decorations based on color.

3) To change views, set the front panel coordinates to the desired decoration

There is an openG function that sets the front panel to the largest decoration. I used the methods I learned from that function to make one that takes a decoration reference input and sets the front panel to that area.

Once you set this up you can resize the decorations without any programming changes (set it and forget it, lol).

If you want more details, let me know.

steve

Re: hiding front panel data

jcarmody — Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:45:09 GMT

Your situation is a symptom of a bad practice; controls and indicators are not "variables" - wires are variables. Controls are for users to enter data and indicators are for users to view data. It may be easier for you, in the short run, to work this way but your software won't be readily readable/maintainable/extendable.

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:08:28 GMT

Your situation is a symptom of a bad practice; controls and indicators are not "variables" - wires are variables. Controls are for users to enter data and indicators are for users to view data.

Please explain to me how to communicate to a subVI without using controls and indicators.

Are you saying that I can't pass an array to a subVI. I have to make the user type it in? You're telling me that I have to show that control to the user when what he really want to see is a plot?

Re: hiding front panel data

Ben — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:14:34 GMT

Controls and indicators can be used in many ways, some good some not so good.

Allowing user input

Displaying a value (or data set like a graph)

passing avlue to a sub-VI

Getting areturned value for a sub-VI.

Those are all concidered good,proper, appropriate etc.

It sounded (from your original post) as if the controls and indicators you are asking about do not fall into those catagories.

If I (we) read that wrong, please clarify.

Just trying to help,

Ben

Re: hiding front panel data

Dennis_Knutson — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:18:07 GMT

Don't be ridiculous. Data is passed to a subVI with a wire. A control is used if the data needs to be changed by the operator. If a control is not shown, then it cannot be changed by the user and you can use a block diagram constant. If you have an indicator that is not visible to the operator, then it really does not need to be there.

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:30:12 GMT

As for the indictors, why not remove them all and when you debug just probe the wires in the block diagram to determine the values in them?

The indicators are not there for debugging, they get passed on to other subVIs.

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:33:52 GMT

It is not good practice to have your controls and indicators disappear and reappear while your program is running

They don't. They appear when I am in production mode or debug mode. They are gone when the user gets the executable.

Re: hiding front panel data

jcarmody — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:50:05 GMT

It's my fault for being unclear. Please add "(or a calling VI)" after the two places I wrote "users" and Bob will be your uncle.

Are you saying that I can't pass an array to a subVI. I have to make the user type it in? You're telling me that I have to show that control to the user when what he really want to see is a plot?

I didn't intend to say that at all. (Did it really come across that way?) I had images of swarms of Local Variables and Property Nodes strewn all over the place when I read your original post. I had these images because I thought I recognized a practice I was once guilty of. How far off was I?

oyester wrote:
I generally solve this problem by putting all of my variables on a tab structure
[and...]
The indicators are not there for debugging, they get passed on to other subVIs.

This last statement is bringing those images back... Read what Dennis Knutson wrote about passing data to a sub VI. The only way I ever read controls is from the BD terminal; I never read the value of an indicator. If you're using a Local Variable or a Property Node to write to a control (with one exception) or to an indicator, I stand by my original post.

Message Edited by jcarmody on 11-03-2009 11:49 AM

Message Edited by jcarmody on 11-03-2009 11:50 AM

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:58:23 GMT

I do that too. Unfortunately my supervisor likes me to leave that stuff in. "You never know when you're going to need it again and it would be a waste of time to recreate it," he tells me. I do my best to make it obvious that it is ancilliary code and then go home and play with my dogs.

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:24:15 GMT

You're right, I didn't state my problem clearly. I was trying to explain something that is complicated (to me) and I did it badly. I even hinted at that in my first sentence.

Let me try again.

Sometimes, in a subVI that a user must interact with, there are controls and indicators that the user does not really need to see. I handle this by putting the user interface on page-1 of a tabbed structure and the stuff I need to hide on page-2. then I hide page-2 from the user.

Is there a better way to do this?

Re: hiding front panel data

GregFreeman — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:38:10 GMT

because, if the subVI is complicated and I am in development or debugging mode, it is hard to find all of the hidden controls and indicators.

Sorry, I guess I misunderstood this sentence when i recommended using the probe. Geeeezeeee 😉

I think you should just post your "problem" VI. People will be able to understand you a lot better than speculating at what you are doing, what the front panel looks like, etc based on your descriptions.

Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 11-03-2009 12:35 PM

Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 11-03-2009 12:38 PM

Re: hiding front panel data

GregFreeman — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:56:56 GMT

Sometimes, in a subVI that a user must interact with, there are controls and indicators that the user does not really need to see. I handle this by putting the user interface on page-1 of a tabbed structure and the stuff I need to hide on page-2. then I hide page-2 from the user.

Is there a better way to do this?

I see what you're saying. There are indicators made to be hooked up to the connector pane, and pass data out of the subVI, but there is no reason for the user to see them on the front panel (when the subVI front panel is open). Say, maybe a calculation is done in that subVI and the answer is passed out to be used somewhere else, but the user doesn't really care about that when he is interacting with the subVI's front panel.

I'm guessing you just have too much happening in your subVI's and they need to be broken down more. However, what about putting all these extra indicators in a cluster, you can then resize your cluster when you need to see the indicators in it(development so you say...), otherwise make it small and slightly off the screen where it is out of site in the executable.

Sorry if I'm entirely off base with your question, and I may give up after this 🙂

My recommendation to post the VI still stands true

Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 11-03-2009 12:55 PM

Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 11-03-2009 12:56 PM

Re: hiding front panel data

RavensFan — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:03:28 GMT

The vast majority of subVI's aren't going to have their front panel shown. So the only controls and indicators you need are the ones you use to connect to the connector pane. They should be arranged on the front panel in a way that is clear, and good LV style would have them in an arrangement that is similar to the connector pane layout. Controls on the left, indicators on the right. Stuff at the top up, stuff at the bottom down. If there are a few extra indicators that don't get connected to the connector panel, no big deal. Put them on the front panel to in their own spot clearly marked. No need to hide them as the subVI's front panel won't be shown anyway.

If you do have a subVI that needs to be show (because it will itself be a part of the user interface) and there are some controls or indicators that are a part of the connector pane, but the user doesn't need to see them, then it is okay to either hide them, or perhaps move them out of the viewing area of the window (assuming the front panel window is basically locked with no scroll bars or resizing.) But subVI's that are also a user interface tend to be a tiny fraction of all the subVI's that you would use in your project.

Re: hiding front panel data

Hummer1 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:52:02 GMT

Perhaps if you are just wanting to hide the info on Tab Page 2...and page 1 is ok for the user to see, you could use the Property Node for the tabs "Tabs Visible" property set to false if you are in user mode and True if in diagnostic mode...

Re: hiding front panel data

Hummer1 — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:55:51 GMT

Seems the Page Selector Visible? works too....

Re: hiding front panel data

oyester — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:47:44 GMT

Yes. That is exactly what I do. I just wondered if there was a better way. I don't care for the recommended way (dragging the user-unused-widgets out of view) because then I can't print (EVERYTHING will get printed). I could make the user-unused-widgets invisible but I don't care for that either.