topic Re: Bug thread discussion in BreakPoint

Bug thread discussion

altenbach — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 14:46:56 GMT

I was suggesting to start a new bug thread for each month to keep things better organized. tst was arguing that it rather should be based on thread lenght.

Let's discuss the advantages and disadvantages here in order not to pollute the bug thread itself. (True, I had two bugs in my first post, but tst had none, so the average is still on target ;))

Here's my position:

The current format is unsatisfactory, because so far none of the weekly bug threads had anything to do with "weekly". They had random duration and were not aligned on week boundaries anyway.

We need to strike a balance between many short threads scattered all over and ultra long threads that are hard to follow.

I think a monthly format with clear threading is fine, even if there might be months without any bugs (probably not ;)) and months with many.

I suggest to open a new thread every month, at which time the old thread will get a last post with a link to the new thread. The first post in the new monthly thread will contain the rules and a link the the previous thread.

Any suggestions are welcome. Here's the place to voice your opinion! 🙂

Re: Bug thread discussion

tst — Thu, 30 Jun 2005 15:16:18 GMT

@altenbach wrote:
I had two bugs in my first post, but tst had none, so the average is still on target 😉

Did you write a VI to calculate that? I hope it didn't have any bugs.

I think what we really need is a real bug system, but that's something that can't be accessed by inexperienced users, and I doubt NI will give access to its database.

As another alternative, I suggest (again) a bug board. This obviously has some disadvantages of its own - inexeperienced users will repost old bugs, people might post non-bugs, people could post bugs to other boards and probably a few others.

Are there any thoughts on that - is there a way to have a useful bug board on NI's site?

Re: Bug thread discussion

Jim_Kring — Mon, 04 Jul 2005 17:55:15 GMT

@tst wrote:

I think what we really need is a real bug system, but that's something that can't be accessed by inexperienced users, and I doubt NI will give access to its database.

As another alternative, I suggest (again) a bug board. This obviously has some disadvantages of its own - inexeperienced users will repost old bugs, people might post non-bugs, people could post bugs to other boards and probably a few others.

Are there any thoughts on that - is there a way to have a useful bug board on NI's site?

I would love to have access to a LabVIEW bug tracker, so that I could report, monitor, and search LabVIEW bugs. However, I don't see this happening from NI any time soon. And, the problem with using a forum for doing this, in general, is that a bug tracker contains a whole lot of data and a collection of forum threads is not an efficient way of managing that data -- you need a database. And, it would require moderator privilages in order to edit thread postings (to update bug status), and NI will probably not give moderator level access to non-NI persons. Perhaps someone could set up a LabVIEW bugzilla site that is community driven. Maybe LAVA could do this, but I know that the staff there is already over worked and under paid. BTW, do you know that the LAVA Forums has a LabVIEW Bug List Forum?

Re: Bug thread discussion

becktho — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:50:06 GMT

I think altenbachs idea is not bad. It would be good to have a simple way to get an overview of bugs, although searching in a database-system would be much better.

The main problem I see, is the inexperienced user who is not used to the forums (I don't know if I'm one of those too ;)). I agree with tst that they may post the same bug ever and ever again - as you see in the normal LabVIEW board. How many new users ask almost the same question? But that's another story.

If something like this bug-threads is set up, I'd find it helpful if they are in separate board and I agree with altenbach, that a duration of a month would be ok.

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:23:58 GMT

Hi all,

Now that we have had the opertunity to test drive a bug list it seems that Altenbach's and tst's suggestions re: month and 25 posting amount to about the same thing.

The but postings todate have been very good and have exceeded my intial expextations.

1) They get the word out. Previously bugs would get posted and confirmed/denighed so quickly only the parties involved knew about them.

2) The publicity has brought more "eyes" to the table to discuss work-arounds and the nature of the beasts.

3) The "bug List" has captured the attention of support and the bugs we have found are getting reported.

For the near term I feel we should contiue as we have. For the long term the DB sounds like a excellent goal. In an effort to bring this about, I will push that all "Enthusiast"s and Champions be granted moderator privlidges. I have hasked for this and was told in time this was part of the plan. In "exchange time" that could be a year away at the earliest. So I just have to send a "nagging" memo once a week between now and then.

And on a similar note:

The "interesting threads" topic is also performing well. If you think about it, they the conterparts of each other. One looks at LV's short-comings, the other highlights its strong points.

Ben

Message Edited by Ben on 07-05-2005 06:28 AM

Re: Bug thread discussion

tst — Tue, 05 Jul 2005 11:49:16 GMT

I know the LAVA bug forum, but the main problem with that is the same problem that we come up against with everything in the LAVA forums. LAVA has a much smaller user community. Admittedly, most of that community is light years ahead of many people here when it comes to using LV, but for things like bugs you often need more users, because that way you run into the less common bugs. What would probably really be good was if NI let us have read access to some version of their bug DB and have a moderator follow our bug threads. The thing is that NI would probably not want to make any part of their DB public, and that's their right.

That bugzilla idea sounds interesting, but I doubt it will fly, due to lack of parents.

Re: Bug thread discussion

altenbach — Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:55:55 GMT

@Ben wrote:

For the near term I feel we should contiue as we have. For the long term the DB sounds like a excellent goal. In an effort to bring this about, I will push that all "Enthusiast"s and Champions be granted moderator privlidges. I have hasked for this and was told in time this was part of the plan.

Ben, I don't like that idea at all and I am not sure how it relates to the bug topic. Participating in a forum and moderating a forum are two very different things, they should be totally independend. (This is like asking for a free pilot's license after a certain amount of frequent flyer miles ;))

I don't mind a few perks as a function of participation. Ideas would be e.g. a mug or t-shirt for certain milestones, a private social forum for "active" and above, taller limits on allowed post lenght (I don't know if there even is a limit), extra fields in the profile, and so on.

Moderator priviledges should only be granted after a detailed internal election and review process. I don't know what the workload is for the current moderators, but it does not seem excessive. Participants are typically very well behaved here. 🙂

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Sun, 24 Jul 2005 14:22:14 GMT

Can't argue those points Christian.

Maybe there is another way to get at what I wanted. This sorta dovetails with the Bug Threads and Interesting Posts.

I wanted the "frequnt flyers" to be able to catagorize the threads. The catagories could be along the lines of

serial

GPIB

DAQ

Grpahics

Peformance

Bugs

etc.

I wanted this because because of two reasons.

1) If you want to get maximum exposure to your question, LV is the best thread to post in.

2) The "average questioner" does not nessesarily know how to catagorize their Q and antisipated response.

I envisioned going through the Q's over my morning coffee and punching buttons to "nominate" the thread as one of the above catagories. When the Q catagorization is then seconded by another "frequent flyer" the Q would then add to the list of Q of that type.

Over time this would result in the BLOB of LV questions into more specialized themes allowing easier searches and theme driven studies for future participants in the exchange. Now that the Bug Threads and Interesting Threads have shown the usefullness, we have a preview of what I was trying to implement on a grander scale.

So, I agree that I should not be given the keys to the plane. I would like to help with sorting and stowing the cargo.

And BTW, the limit on posting is 5000 characters. I found this out with my "Ode to a State Diagram" posting.

Ben

Message Edited by Ben on 07-24-2005 09:24 AM

Re: Bug thread discussion

shoneill — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:01:43 GMT

Ben,

if the ability to shift around posts is geanted, it's imperative to do it in a way so that any links to the post won't be broken.....

Maybe NI should add an option to new(er) users to click (mandatory) on a specific box when posting in order to decide what topic they are posting on (Serial, memory management, files etc. and then route the post to the correct forum). This option could be turned off by a more experienced user without any trouble......

Shane.

Re: Bug thread discussion

becktho — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 08:10:43 GMT

This idea sounds not bad - but I think there may be users who don't know what type of topic they are referring to.

Just an example: a professional programmer with lots of years experience runs into troubles using a serial port - he may be looking for drivers or other lower level information. A newbie with no experience (maybe a student) runs into the same problem - he may think labview makes something wrong.

Ok - I know it's not the best example, but I think there will be similar situations.

I'd say there should be a guy of NI, who may move messages to the correct board.

Thomas

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:42:26 GMT

I really did not want to change the posting aside from adding additional attributes.

While I am at this dreaming thing...

The icons in the left hand column could be changed to reflect the catagory the frequent flyers assigned.

Ben

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:50:35 GMT

The state of the Bug Thread will be reviewed next week (16 March 2006).

Please post any thought suggestions or desires you have regarding same here so your voice can be heard.

If you prefer another forum to express your thoughts you can post to this thread on the LAVA forum

http://forums.lavag.org/index.php?showtopic=2817&hl=

Ben

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Mon, 03 Apr 2006 12:55:33 GMT

Hi All,

I like the "Bug List" introduced by CC in this this thread.

http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?board.id=BreakPoint&message.id=2033&jump=true

Anyone else have an opinion on this subject?

Ben

Re: Bug thread discussion

chilly_charly — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 04:28:14 GMT

Yeah ! I think also that's a great idea. Thanks CC !

However, I already found two bugs in the Bug List : Altenbach and Ben are reporting future bugs, in December 2006 !

I hope the next reporter, while ransacking the LAVA BL or going back in time to add more entries to TBL, will manage to correct this unacceptable mistake.

Some suggestions to allow for an efficient search : fill the first column with appropriate key words : PDA, graphs, App Builder are fine, but you could add Files, Arrays, Tables...

May be an additionnal column could provide a FP/Diagram/Exe info ?

I think that a reduced set of "official" key words could really help us. Could somebody, more fluent in english than the annoying frog, propose something ?

Some more ideas :

- impact index, from low to critical

- "workaround exists" column

- platform columns.

One issue is that any modification, for instance after a bug has been acknowledged by NI or also found on other versions or platforms, requires a new reply in the BP board. How could we find a way to edit this file, without being obliged to create new theads ?

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 12:34:25 GMT

Go CC!

I'll try to reply later.

Anyone else want to share their thought?

Ben

Re: Bug thread discussion

daijoubu — Tue, 04 Apr 2006 14:46:47 GMT

To start with, I like the bug list. But the latest incarnation with the spreadsheet... Why are you reinventing the wheel? There are literally thousands of bugtracking applications on the web. One of those must be adequate for this. If nobody wants to manage it and host it offsite, how about creating a sub-forum. Each thread in the sub-forum is one bug. This might be a little more workable, and with the new features, we could subscribe to reported bugs that we're interested in.

Re: Bug thread discussion

Ben — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 18:51:10 GMT

Just to update this thread after a long time....

...well eventually we got the Bug List going and as indicated in this post, we have the full support of NI in this effort.

Ben

Suggestion and observation about bug list

Ben — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:35:05 GMT

Chrstian closing the October and opening the November Bug Threads reminded me of an idea.

It would be nice if a link to the "Known Bug List" for the current version of LV (maintained by NI) should be included in the post that start the new lists.

That way people can first check if their issue is known before they add to the list.

BTW

Congratulations to all LabVIEW Bug Hunters and Trackers!

Your colaborative efforts have opened a wonderful time saving resource that can only make LabVIEW better.

Thank you!

Ben

Thank you Partha!

Ben — Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:50:24 GMT

I'd like to thank Partha for the work in keeping the Bug Thread active for March.

Came real close to a monopoly.

Thank you for the work required to keep us all updated!

Ben

Discuss Bug thread here and keep the bug thread clean

Ben — Wed, 06 Oct 2010 18:32:41 GMT

Bump!

This thread is for discusions reagarding the various Bug Threads. Please post your comments re: the bug thread here.

Thank you,

Ben