Indians thread

[F._Schubert]

Thank you very much Partha. I am getting enthusiastic about this trip (it will be work and not holidays).

Inviting the other indian wire-workers to join my plannings: Can you please give me some brief review about south indian cuisine. What are famous dishes (indian names + english description). As I am a hobby-cook, I really would like to take some new culenarian ideas to my own kitchen back home. And also spices, how would I get these (street vendors, supermarkets), names of spieces or brands. As I have been travelling asia before, I am not scared by non-western flavours (including spicy food, I survived Sechuan in China).

Felix

[Vaibhav]

Hi Felix,

That day, during your conversation with Partha, I was going to mention one thing in particular - 

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parthabe wrote:

You can get/eat Madurai meal & Mumbai meal in the same hotel (I forgot its name). There are a few quite good restaurents (Komalas, Saravana Bhavan & some Chettinad restaurent), all near to Mustafa, that give you a good taste of real, authentic & spicy South Indian food.

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Yes, that's RED HOT CHILLI (& black) PEPPERS 😄  

But started some work and postponed replying. Good that you brought that issue once again. Ok, since you survived the Chinese spicy food in China (not the westernised Chinese food :P), and since you are not afraid, I would say go ahead! 🙂 But, the original spicy south Indian food has in fact a different "definition" of spicy food. It is sometimes, spicy for Indian spicy food lovers as well - so don't forget to add that beverage called "buttermilk" in your south Indian menu. Indian food (ingredients - vegetables, lentiles, grains and spices) is originally based on the ancient culinary system which was well defined many thousand years ago keeping in mind the rules of our anatomy and the medicine science - Ayurveda. Ok, that's another topic. I am also a cook (happily adopted by circumstances 😄 - kidding). I like to cook and experiment different dishes - Indian or European (from Portugal till Russia) or Chinese or from somewhere else. So just gave you a little hint about the Indian culinary system - so you know why "buttermilk" (a drink made from curd/yogurt and water with some salt, cumin, herbs), which actually works as the best coolant in hot summer days as well as with hot spicy food. The spices are medicines for keeping the body healthy, but anything "too much" is bad, and also most food items with strong effects have something to accompany with to produce a counter effect (and neutralize the excess of anything). But again, there are things that you better not combine - milk + spices. 😉 Interesting huh? Milk+spices a "no no" and buttermilk+spices "kudos" 😄

Ok, just gave you a little background about the Indian spices.

Partha has given you a first hand guide about the Little India, so he is the best guide there. About buying spices, there are some companies which are considered "good" world wide for Indian spices or other food items. They can be found in the shops of UK or Portugal or Australia - covering the globe. I think they must be there as well. If not, I guess even your hotel guy would help you going to a spice shop. In India we buy spices from street vendors as well as from shops (everyone goes to their traditional shop-keeper whom they trust since spices are a very important part of our life, their quality decides the quality of the food of the entire year). But in a foreign land, I would prefer some "trusted" brands rather than something from the street. Again, Partha the guide. 

Buy the "turmeric (people call it saffron too, which is wrong), Dhaniya (coriander powder),Red chilli powder, Garam masala (a mixture of several hot/sweet spices - used as a taste maker +aroma maker in many south/north Indian dishes). I have written the spice names in their respective "approximate" colors so that you have an "approximate" idea. They basically depend upon their quality. Apart from these traditional spices, there are spices specific to a dish. Such spices can be found with some brand - MDH brand should be available in some Indian store there. You can buy special spices (a mixture of spices suitable for some particular dish) for Chana Masala, PavBhaji Masala, Dum-Aloo Masala, or whatever other spices you find there. Also, you can buy Tamarind which is very much used in south Indian food, to give it a sour taste.

About the other food ingredients, South Indian food is based on Rice - Rice Steam Breads (Idli), or Rice crepes/pan cakes (Dosa), Bisibella and other Rice dishes. But apart from Rice, other key ingredients are various lentiles. If you have never cooked an Indian food before, and if you are not a vegetarian, you probably never needed to search for lentiles. However, in India, lentiles are used a lot. Even in my home in Portugal, I have 5-6 different kinds of lentiles. They are protein rich, and different lentiles have different qualities - easy/hard to digest etc. You can buy some lentiles also. For south indian food, they mix white lentile (let's go by color, it will be easier 😉 ), but also you should buy yellow lentile and green lentiles. Have you heard of green mung beans? Green lentiles are from those. Ok, this was for further exploration of culinary world.   

But try to explore more Indian food, not just South Indian food. Try Punjabi food - Tandoori Roti (an oven made indian wheat bread - something similar but very different than Pizza), Dal (a lentile soup that we make almost everyday at home in India), a main dish (be yourself to explore after discussing with the waiter/chef), papad (also known as papadam - a spicy bread from lentiles), curry....

I am from Gujarat, and apart from the festivals, Gujarat is famous for its food too. If you can find a Gujarati restaurant (typically called a "Dining Hall"), go for it. You just have to order a "Thali" (a "full plate") and it would have everything in it that a Gujarati lunch/dinner should have - with all the dietary requirements based on the Ayurveda - protein (lentile soup), carbohydrates (Roti, Rice), carbo+starch+fibres+minerals (vegetables) and above all the SWEETS. And a Gujarati Thali would be much more economical than other food. Do not know if there are any good place there. Sometimes, these places would be not so "shiny and sophisticated" so please check for yourself if it suits you. Consider it as an adventure.

What more? You are visiting an Indian area at the time of the biggest Indian festival - Diwali. So you should be seeing the festive mood with your own eyes. The Diwali will reflect in everything - food and shopping. Diwali is the festival of lights/lamps. In India, we have "las vegas effects" 😄 during Diwali. Enjoy the sweets, and buy to take with you.  

I am afraid, in the next 1 week, your stomach will experience the worst ever changes - being bombarded everyday with strange chemicals 😄 (spices and lentiles).

So be careful! 

(I am also afraid this forum/thread will be deleted soon, as we are talking too much NON-LabVIEW stuff 😛 ) 

[Vaibhav]

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Ben wrote:

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parthabe wrote:

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Ben wrote:

But even if I do retire, I have asked the wife to budget for a LV license, so I can still code and post after I retire.

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Frankly speaking Ben, this was the exact thing I wanted to ask you directly, which I think I asked you subtly.

Instead of troubling your wife, you should ask NI to give you a life-time free license for all their future versions.

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Have you been reading my email?

I have been asking NI to provide a Life-Time User License to all of the LabVIEW Champions since about March of 2005.

The LabVIEW Champions Keepers have alway agreed but none of them have ever been succesful in getting it settled. It seems there is trouble trying to put a $value on what the Champions and the Zealots do for LV and the LV community. At one time, years ago, Chily Charlie tried to organize a "strike" by the gold bar contributors so that our presense could be felt ( or the lack there of). I think it lasted about a day and Dennis' post count doulbed* that day.

Ben

* Dennis being all buisness did not read the thread about the strike.

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Ok, I am also supporting your "humble" demand of a life-time free license. Hilarious part is that the forum users even went on "strike" 😄 . That is something very solid. It shows the strong demand. 

But I would say one Indian proverb on this situation. If I translate into English, literally, it would be like - 

"If a horse makes friendship with the grass, what would it eat?"

A horse (considered as our best friends and companions, and very humble animal - friendship with everyone), cannot make friendship with the grass (its food) while walking and grazing, otherwise will die with hunger.

We, I mean the LabVIEW developers in general, are the clients and customers of NI. And if NI starts giving us free licenses, then how would they run the business? 😄

Ok, just a light comment for fun, because of the context that reminded me of this proverb. I know the point was about giving it to "Champions" only, but then these "Champions" are an inseparable (solid, loyal) part of the customer base, and companies hire them for their championships (championhoods??). 😛  So how can NI eliminate them from their customer base?

Message Edited by Vaibhav on 10-13-2009 10:04 PM

[F._Schubert]

Thank you very much Vaibhav for your comprehensive writing on Indian food-culture (as expected 😉 ). I have not yet 'digested' everything you wrote. But I feel pretty familiar with it (I live vegetarian in europe).

So here the first questions:

Buttermilk: is it lassie (so yoghurt - I get an translation to hindi as लस्सी) or what we call Buttermilch in german? So if you have milk (the unprocessed one directly from the cow), wait some time and take the cream off from the top. Then you place this cream in a container and shake it for a long time (until your arm hurts). Inside you find the butter as a piece, and the liquid around is the 'Buttermilch'.We get that one in a different consistency in a supemarket now, but this is the way I learned as a child.

Next question: Please tell me more about Tamarind. I got some from the asia shop and the sour tast is very fine. But I don't know about the diffrent forms and how to use them best for a good meal.

And the last one for today: Lentils. I love them. A simple daal is giving you so much energy! (IMO, the only other dish is japanese miso soup). I could follow your explanations so far andd would like to learn more.

Felix

[Vaibhav]

Wow, I have become predictable. 😉

Yes, I expected anybody should need "some" time to "digest" everything that I wrote. And questions are expected and welcome.

By the way, you mean you don't eat meat (meat/chicken/fish = meat, I know Felix that you know, but for non-vegetarian, chicken and fish are still not meat), or are you a "part-time" vegetarian (as some people call themselves vegetarian because they eat vegetarian food also 😄 - kiddin', I guess you're the real veggie). 

Buttermilk is obtained by mixing a lot of water in the curd (and you can also use hand grinder to mix it well and fast). And curd is actually the spoiled milk - a warm milk with some lemon, kept overnight, will be in some "semi solid" soft form that looks very sleeky (not like cottage cheese) and that's what we call "curd."

Lassi - wow, you found it - is not Buttermilk 😞 . Lassi is equivalent of "yogurt" (yoghurt - my spellings are becoming European :P) that you find in the supermarket (with flavours). Lassi has a very high fat, and buttermilk is considered to be very low in fat.

I have never tried the Buttermilch recipe so not sure what I would get there. But from your explanation, what I see is, you are making "butter" which is very similar to the way we make "melted butter" (Ghee) in our homes in India. Buttermilk is closer to the Buttermilche and opposite to the Lassie. 

Boil the fatty unprocessed milk (just once boiling when the milk rises), and when it cools down, take the cream from the top. Store this cream in refrigerator and collect more. After a week or so, when there is good amount of this high-fat cream, then just whip it (thru hand grinder for example, like whipping cream) and you get very soft butter. That is the purest form of butter - white soft butter (not creamy in looks, but rather rough texture like mountains .. 😄 ). The water surrounding this is not the buttermilk I am talking about. It could be used as a buttermilk, since it also has a lot of vitamins, less fat (all the fat being in the butter which is now very rich in Vitamin A - good for eyes, not bad with the cholesterol). If you further boil this white butter constantly stirring as it will also rise if you don't stir, what you get (after taking away the fat that remains at the bottom of the pan) is the melted butter called "Ghee" (the traditional indian melted butter, used in a lot of sweets and other dishes - not bad for cholesterol - people are afraid of it but that's ignorance). Boil until you get the yellowish (like oil) looking liquid, and brownish white fat at the bottom (which you can eat by adding some sugar 😄 and gain good "calories" 😄 ). This yellowish "Ghee" or even the "white butter" before Ghee are good for health (not like the normal yellowish salty butter or margarine from our supermarket).

So now you know the left out Buttermilch (for the sake of simplicity, let's call it Buttermilch - the one that we get while making butter), and the Buttermilk that we  make by mixing curd with water.

Tamarind. I don't use them, as they are not good for my health. In my house we do not use it, normally, except for some sweet creams (chutney, if you know 😉 ).

About using Tamarind, I guess you use them while making, for example the daal, and while boiling it just add a little (dried or fresh) tamarind and when the daal is ready it's with the sour taste. But be careful with the quantity. It's a strong taste maker. 

Actually, in my previous post, I was going to write, that just buy these things (the spices I mean) if you can. About how to use them, we'll discuss later as it is a long process of exploration.  

Since you know the Lentils (the one for Daal is called "Tuver", the one for south Indian breads is called "Udad'" and the one yellowish is called "mung" and the one with "green skin" is also called "mung with skin"), just get them if you find them. Also try to buy "Chanaa" (chick peas). They are also full of protein and an integral part of our menu. Also, you can get some "seasame seeds," "cumin seeds," "coriander seeds," "mustard seeds" and "ajmaain seeds" (donno English) and "fenugreek seeds" (very good for arthritis and joints). 

Wow, you have good knowledge (of Indian cuisine) then, not a complete newbie as you were being humble in the previous post. I still have to explore Japanese food. 

Good that my explanations are with good readability.

Edited: Ah, forgot to write, buy the natural Tamarind (sticky brownish skin with big seeds), and not the tamarind powder or dried tamarind, of course if you have a choice. 😉 But dried tamarind could be also good, as you can use it for longer period.

Message Edited by Vaibhav on 10-14-2009 12:20 AM

Message Edited by Vaibhav on 10-14-2009 12:21 AM

[F._Schubert]

Thank you all for the feedback so far. I will arrive saturday (but maybe tired, jet lag, climat change...), so I can go to the Sunday event Partha described. And if I got it correctly, it will be a great experience as still the Diwali celebrations are going on. I googled the names Partha wrote down and found that they are restaurants of some reputation, I think I need to check these out. And I also will try to find a Gujarat dining hall and get the full plate. I spoke to a coworker that has been there already and he recommended me the indian food (he used to travel in SA, while I always headed for Asia).

About spices, most of the pure ones are already in my kitchen (I have a well stocked chinese run asia market here), but I will try to get the mixes for particular dishes as I seldom get good blends here (have you ever tried the yellowish powder they sell as 'Curry' in europe?). And I will try to get a translation of the ones that Vaibhavcouldn't translate. Vaibhav, can you also provide me the hindi writing?

What I still miss is a list of names of some famous south-indian dishes (like Tandoori Roti).

I will print out these replies and use them as my 'guidebook to Little India and beyond'. Thank you so much. I won't get such qualified responses if I'd post them on the travel forum of Lonely Planet or other Travel Sites.

Felix

[Vaibhav]

Yes Felix, you got it right. You are going there exactly during the Diwali time (it will begin after 2 days). I had also "planned/dreamed" my trip this time, but I will go on 29th Oct (finally bought the tickets).

Be careful about name that you called Gujarat Dining Hall. This sounds like the name of the restaurant is Gujarat. Which is not so. I said, Gujarati (an adjective) dining hall. There could be any name of the restaurant (not sure if they are calling it a dining hall or a restaurant there). If you say Gujarat dining hall, the guy could get confused, but if you say "any restaurant/dining hall with Gujarati food" then it would be a better question.

Hahahah.. yeah, I have that "yellowish green" powder they call "Curry powder" in Europe. 😄 . I bought out of curiousity and still use it some times. Yes, you can use that, but not for the "curry" .. for any of your experimental dishes. 😉 The "curry" has a different flavour (when you come back 😉 we'll talk about that - or even in that gujarati restaurant, you may try "gujarati curry" which is a yellowish white a little sweet yet spicy soup like dal - but without lentils).

I already gave you many names of South Indian dishes (Idli, Dosa, Bisibella) as well as Punjabi dishes along with the Tandoori Roti. 

Here are some more -

South Indian:

Vada (deep fried dumplings) - Vadá,

Coconut Chutney (to accompany with any south Indian food),

some more chutneys 😄 ,

Sambhar (the south Indian Lentil Soup with vegetables - very spicy) speaking Sãbhár (nasal ã like in French),  

Different varieties of Dosa (rice pan cake - rice crepe):

plain (just simple rice pan cake - fried),

paper - very thin and crispy,

masala - stuffed with vegetables,

mysore - made from rice mixed with other flour "Suji"

mysore masala - mysore dosa with stuffed veg.  

(English name for "suji (सुजी)" is Semolina - in Russia they call it Крупа Манная - which you could also buy in an Indian grocery shop if not available in your place),

Punjabi dishes

Dal fry / Dal Tadaka "दाल तडका" (a lentil soup with fried spices) 

Jeera Rice (fried Rice with cumin seeds) or Biryani (a rice dish with vegetables and spices and dried fruits)

Makke di Roti (Tandoori Roti from Corn flour - not wheat)

And any of the following main dishes 

Palak-Paneer (Paneer with Spinach) - 

Any type of Tikka Masala (there are many dishes with the similar gravy, but different ingredients)

try one with Indian cottage cheese "Paneer (पनीर)", Paneer Tikka Masala - पनीर टीक्का मसाला - 3 words in the same order so you can use them for other purposes as well - generic 😉

Baigan Bharata "बैंगन भरथा" (from baked brinjals) 

Chana Masala (from the black chick peas - also you can buy in shop - "black chick peas" or "Kala Chana (काला चना)")

Vegetable Samosas (I guess you are familiar with this 😉 )

Vada (deep fried dumplings with any kind of filling - stuffings) 

The above is a "complete" dish that you should be more than satisfied with.  

Or, just order a dish called "Chhole Bhature" (छोले भटुरे) - do you know how to speak "Chh"? 😄 - ok this dish is with deep fried wheat bread, and punjabi style chick peas with onion, garlic and many spices (that special mixture for "chhole masala (छोले मसाला)" - you can also buy there). 

Try Punjabi Lassie (but not sure if they prepare as good as in India).

And without miss, get some sweet -

Gulab Jamun (गुलाब जामुन) - won't explain. should be a surprise for you.

or any kind of Halwa they prepare (ask the waiter/manager for the one they prepare good :P)

Indian sweets are not cakes or chocolates. They are very different from the rest of the world and they are also different in different parts of India - they could be completely different (not just two different toppings in a similar style of cake) - complete different ingredients and different recipe and shape and taste and size and colors.

These dishes shall be written there in menu in English as well, so you don't need in Hindi writing. Just "speak" them and they would smile and bring 😄 

As you noticed, many English names are used in Indian correspondences, so the staff in the restaurant must be comfortable with your English names as well. In any case, you have Hindi names (with pronunciations)  as well. They receive many foreigners / English speaking customers daily. So don't worry.

The "seeds" and "spices" I wrote are all in English. Here are their Hindi names in Devanagari script as well:

 Spices (seeds as well as powder)

English - Hindi - Devanagari

Coriander (powder and seeds) - Dhaniya - धनीया

Mustard (seeds) - Rai - राई 

Fenu greek (seeds and dried/fresh herb leaves) - Methi - मेथी

Cumin (powder and seeds) - Jeera - जीरा

Turmeric (powder) - Haldi - हल्दी

Garam Masala (powder) - Garam Masala (Garam = Hot/Spicy; Masala = Spice) - गरम मसाला

Lentils (dal)

Tuver Dal (dark orange)  - तुवेर दाल

Udad Dal (white) - ऊडद दाल

Mung Dal (yellow - without skin) - मुंग दाल पीली

Mung Dal (green - with skin) - मुंग दाल छीलके वाली 

Masur Dal (reddish/pink) - मसुर दाल

I guess this is already more than you can carry home (without paying extra luggage charges)! 🙂 

Wish you happy and safe journey and good health to enjoy everything! 😛 

(PS: the bold names are "must try" things). 

[F._Schubert]

Thanks Vaibhav,

from Methi I got directly the translation (german, latin):

Bockshornklee (Trigonella foenum-graecum)

actually, that is supposed to be a rediscovered 'native' spice in south-germany (mayby broader). I even get cheese flavoured with it at the supermarket.

Can you please also translate:

ajmaain seeds

Felix

[Vaibhav]

Interesting that methi is widely used in Germany. It's like Semolina widely used in Russia. Here in Portugal, I cannot find Semolina except in Indian stores, however Methi is available in stores with herbs or vegetarian food items. And often such herbs are added in Cheese (like cheese with salsa or garlic).

That Ajmaain spelling was incorrect (though "speaking" it, you could convince the shopkeeper what you want). Correct is "Ajwain" and here is the page with complete info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajwain (carom seeds or bishop's seed)

I got mistaken because in Gujarati, we call it "Ajmo" (so that "m" remained in my spelling, since I was always with two minds about ajmain or ajwain whenever I hear someone speaking it in Hindi, thankfully today got cleared). 

Regards.

[Vaibhav]

Methi has very ancient mentions in the Ayurveda's medicine science. I wrote you earlier, it is good against arthritis. It's bitter, and in winter we also make sweets from methi (can you believe? 😉 )

Just one thing I thought, the coincidence - just prior to your trip, a thread was created from some discussion in Ben's thread. 🙂

Everything happens for a good reason!