LabView vs LabWindows/CVI

[Romsky]

The 'G' standing for what?

[crossrulz]

G is the LabVIEW programming language.

[Romsky]

G meaning "Graphical"?

So I guess we might also need:

CVI-Peen

and why not GUI-Peen while we are at it [laugh].

When it comes to having a CVI-Peen, you might want to call me Mr. Tripod, thank you [laugh]

[M37Eddie]

This discussion is exponentially spiraling out of control.  Someone contact the CDC. All persons who have come in contact with this thread are hereby quarantined to the R&D lab for a duration of not less than 30 days or until the vending machine has run dry, whichever occurs first.

[Todd_Lesher]

I really like how easy it is to write code in Python and in C. I do not like how long it takes to create and change UI elements in Qt or wxWidgets or visual C. LV front panels are so quick and easy to write and to change without the overhead of the text-based language hooks.

[querty999]

You said, "I have found that even non-programmers can look at Labview code, figure out what is going on, and make some minor changes.  It is that intuitive.  That is not the case with C."

Just the opposite in my experience. I work in a university environment. I adminster NI products in the ME department. Students constantly come to me with LabVIEW questions. Graduate students in particular inherit programs that former students wrote. They can't figure out how the programs work. Frequently I can't either.

Before I knew that LabWINDOWS existed I started down the LV learning path. I attended NI training and studied on my own. It was a struggle for me. I bought several books. I worked many example programs. When writing my own programs I often got stuck and had no idea why. I spent lots of time asking questions on forums and calling NI for support.

Then I discovered LW. Oh, what a relief. Since then, I have not needed training materials beyond the "Getting Started" document provided by NI. Acutally, there are virtually no books available on CVI. The couple I found were very old. I think the reason they don't exist is that they didn't sell well. They didn't sell well because they aren't needed. CVI is self explanatory if you know C.

I was an intermediate level C programmer before discovering LW. If you don't have that experience then LV may be the better choice. But my contention is that LV is not nearly as easy to learn as advertised. The "graphical programmming" mantra is very misleading. If you're going to work that hard to learn LV then why not learn C instead? You will be prepared to do many other things with that knowledge. And you won't be locked in to a single vendor's products.

[Romsky]

querty999,

No rambling here, just facts:

I agree with everything you said. When I helped to teach a microprocessor class, the students would come to me, "Romsk!  My code won't work!".  All I had to do is tell them to "clean up" their code - whitespace is your friend!  They would do that and find their problems almost every time.  So a lot of problems are with simple techniques not the language.

Even though LabVIEW has a "clean up" feature it seldom cleans things to my satisfaction.  I have seen a lot of LV code that is simply hard to read with all the wires strewn about (but not everything connects by wires).  Then there is the context of what each graphical component means. I understand what is going on, but I huff and say to myself, why don't I just do this in LW.

LV takes some time to learn and you have to code in a different way (not better per *****, just different).  And yes, when I inherit LabVIEW or LabWindows/CVI code, the CVI code can always be picked up quicker.  So if you know C/C++/C# then CVI is a quicker start.  In fact I was only given a 20 minute tutorial on CVI and I was off and running.  With LabVIEW it took hours to show me the basics of this strange but intriguing language (in fact you need to know the whole language up front to really get going).

I have worked with US FIRST Robotics students - some pretty bright young minds. I often get them started on LabVIEW because they often are not familiar with any text based language.  But the truly gifted ones seem to gravitate to text based languages (I don't know why), so it is C and CVI for them.  They seem to pick up C so quickly that they are off onto CVI, while the LabVIEW students are a little lost in their own code while they learn.  In the end, they are both successful, and that is the important thing [nodding smile].

Romsky

[querty999]

First Robotics students probably gravitate toward C when they discover the microcontrollers can be programmed in C. That's why I said that once you learn C you can work in numerous environments.

I've worked in couple control system environments. Both offered C programming libraries.  I've found that while C may not be the optimal approach in every situation, you can be productive with it almost everywhere.

Programmers who are sure their career will be entirely in an NI environment may never need anything but LV. Others might be wise invest their time in something more universal.

[querty999]

Your analogy shows that for programs requiring two icons and one wire LV is the best choice. As a LW supporter, I have to admit. You're right!

[JÞB]

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@M37Eddie wrote:

This discussion is exponentially spiraling out of control.  Someone contact the CDC. All persons who have come in contact with this thread are hereby quarantined to the R&D lab for a duration of not less than 30 days or until the vending machine has run dry, whichever occurs first.

---

Chiming in!

Note: i did not shout  I'm here to put my opinions forth on recient adds to this long-standing thread.  I may even spell check it!

CVI dude- I didn't catch your name- I feel it is great that you write commented and documented code.  Add a picture! a drawing! a *.gif.  Is text the only way YOU think?  Should I have bolded that statement?  how do you comment your code without a graphical language? one picture or, a thousand words.

You seem to be leaning towards the "Thousand words" but that may be my failure at understanding---- Could you draw me a picture to help me understand your point?

Now, show me code you wrote that can do that!

Yup, I'm biased.  I want ALL of my brain working when I write code.  Shut down half of your brain if you must.  I don't think that will impact me much.