We are sending robots the size of cars to Mars ...

[Ben]

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@jcarmody wrote:

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@jcarmody wrote:

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@Ben wrote:

If the military budget is being slashed, [...]

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The military is a gigantic drain on the economy.

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Somehow, I'm beginning to feel like alfa1.

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Re: drain

So are my guns on my personal budget. Until we live in a world without war (remeber the "peace Dividend"?) the military will be required to defend us from those that want to stop our way of life. As far as i understand it the colonies were united into a single country so we did not have 13 different armies navies etc. The military is one of those "if it does nothing else, at least it will defend the country" you know the "provide for" part.

At least you can post an image of a cheesburger.

I'll race you to "Alfaland". That part of of my being that drove me to help out in the LV world is screaming at me to take the next step and run the risk of sounding like a nut-job.

So what type of nuts do you want with that burger?

Ben

[crossrulz]

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@jcarmody wrote:

Somehow, I'm beginning to feel like alfa1.

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Sorry, but we upped it to posting a bacon cheeseburger...

http://forums.ni.com/t5/BreakPoint/Random-Posts-An-alternate-to-side-discussions/m-p/2113956#M20334

[LV_Pro]

Much of the US military budget slashing is at the military's request, canceling overpriced projects that were only there as pork for some senator's/representative's district. Getting involved in boondoggles that last longer than any previous military venture, where decision maker's own "previous" companies are given no-bid contracts to rip off the citizens of the US, by an amount that would easily have funded setting up a colony on Mars seems like it would help much more than reducing the funding for NASA. As to NASA's contributions, it is very unlikely that private enterprise would devote the funds for basic research in anything. Look at your wing tips, the next time you fly on a commercial jet. Doubt that American Airlines, United, Delta, Boeing, Airbus, etc., would have devoted the resources that were used to discover the improved efficiencies they provide. Or the multitude of airfoil shapes, flaps configurations, the list is nearly endless. I really enjoy flying, briefly, on a DC-3/ C47, glad I was on a 767 to Peru Saturday. Don't even get me started on the many electronic advances driven by NASA's needs. If you have a memory foam mattress, thank NASA as well. I have worked fior too many major companies who have decided that this year's stock numbers outway any long term planning Very few have any pure research that doesn't have a specific target. Contrary to the Atlas Shrugged fans' beliefs, private industry RARELY does anything that won't show immediate profits. From Peru, hasta luego, don't think I'll have wifi in the headwaters of the Amazon.

[LV_Pro]

Avoiding getting involved in boondoggles.

[Intaris]

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Ben wrote:

Re: drain

So are my guns on my personal budget. Until we live in a world without war (remeber the "peace Dividend"?) the military will be required to defend us from those that want to stop our way of life. As far as i understand it the colonies were united into a single country so we did not have 13 different armies navies etc. The military is one of those "if it does nothing else, at least it will defend the country" you know the "provide for" part.

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I'm sorry Ben but re. defending: when was the last time that America was invaded?

Shane.

[manumohannair]

This is a comment from outsider who don't have Jihadi links :-).

America spends money in defense to create issues(funding the Jihadis in afghanistan late 80's) and later to defend their own country against their prodigal sons(9\11 and Iraq war). Why should US police the world when they have so much of issues to be resolved inside? US defense expenditure is close to sum of China,Russa,GB,Saudis and India. Whats the point here? What was the point of F-22?

[jcarmody]

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@Ben wrote:

Re: drain

So are my guns on my personal budget. Until we live in a world without war (remeber the "peace Dividend"?) the military will be required to defend us from those that want to stop our way of life.[...]

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The only part of "our way of life" that this nation's "enemies" want to stop is empire building.  Once we stop trying to take over the world we'll find ourselves much happier.

On the other hand, the "our way of life" that I belive you're talking about (motherhood, baseball and apple pie) *is* under attack, but not from the outside.  Someone wants to take away your guns, but they're not in "the sandbox".  The same thing can be said about your privacy, property, speech, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, evolution, reincarniation, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Bacon cheeseburger!

I can't help it.  😞

[Intaris]

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@jcarmody wrote:

The only part of "our way of life" that this nation's "enemies" want to stop is empire building.  Once we stop trying to take over the world we'll find ourselves much happier.

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Zactly.  This part (Empire building) does indeed require the military.

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@jcarmody wrote:

On the other hand, the "our way of life" that I belive you're talking about (motherhood, baseball and apple pie) *is* under attack, but not from the outside.  Someone wants to take away your guns, but they're not in "the sandbox".  The same thing can be said about your privacy, property, speech, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, evolution, reincarniation, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Bacon cheeseburger!

I can't help it.  😞

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This part (Everyday America) does NOT require the military and is probably the more accutely endangered of the two.

Just my uneducated opinion.

Shane.

PS It seems kind of a logical conundrum to think that one must defend oneself from the forces who would disarm you and thus you need your weapons.  I think that's an infinite regression.  This from someone living in a country where each and every male citizen over the age of 18 has a gun from the military at home.

[Ben]

THank you very much for taking the time to reply to my thoughts all. I appreciate the chance to check my thoughts.

Being raised an Air Force brat followed by a round in the USN, I have been influenced by the military side. I admit that freely.

I will try to reply those that have offered thoughts for me to concider

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Putnam wrote:

Contrary to the Atlas Shrugged fans' beliefs, private industry RARELY does anything that won't show immediate profits.

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I do not want to get into  splitting hairs over "immediate".

Yes there must be a return on investments to drive the effort. The decisions made by the management and governing bodies of companies that are publicly traded have a feduciary obligation to act wisely and in the interest of the "company". So yes no return no investment. One of the responcibilies of the executives is to protect the investments of the investors. That means maintaining any profits and keeping the compnay stock value stable or increasing.

Investing in the market can be a very complicated or simle thing dependin on how you approach it (trust me I'm trying to tie the back). We can spend our spare time studying detailed reports blha blh blha or we can look at the stock price history. This is not unlike the situation were we as developers are judged by the numbers we earn on our certification exams. The former approach to the market is used by few while the latter is used by most I suspect. So the demand for a stock and therefor its price and the indirectly the performanc of the company is being judged by the "impresion" given by the numbers.

So in some sense the management has to be able to show they act responcibly.

Investing in a boondoggle is not responcible.

Note: In AS Dagny had to do her thing as an independent company since the risk was too high.

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Shane wrote:

I'm sorry Ben but re. defending: when was the last time that America was invaded?

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Start rolling your eyes now.

No need to appologize! You are calling me on the floor to justify my thoughts and that is perfectly fair and I thank you for doing so.

The US is being invaded now. There are regions of the US southwest that are dominated by the drug cartels. You may have heard of Jihadi links to the cartels or perhaps not. The rise in beheading occuring just south of the border with some incidents occuring on the US side. The beheading thing seems to be the signature of Jihadi groups.

I'll set that to the side for you to scream about but yet another invasion is illustrated by the Fort Hood shooting where the US military is being infiltrated.

OK lets call Ben crazy thinking the behedings in the south west Fort Hood are all just flukes. "Move along people there is nothing happeing here."

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manumohannair wrote;

This is a comment from outsider who don't have Jihadi links :-).

America spends money in defense to create issues(funding the Jihadis in afghanistan late 80's) and later to defend their own country against their prodigal sons(9\11 and Iraq war). Why should US police the world when they have so much of issues to be resolved inside? US defense expenditure is close to sum of China,Russa,GB,Saudis and India. Whats the point here? What was the point of F-22?

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Good points!

The US behaviour in the world has been shameful. Eisenhower warned of the Military-Industrial complex growing too large and acquiring too much power. many of the covert action taken by the US government have served only to let the leaders be lazy and maintain a status quo that works for them but works agains the will of the people in the coutries were they we have been sticking our nose in were it does not belong.

The US can not and should not impose its beliefs on the rest of the world. however, I have to differ with Ron Paul who want to pull al of the troops back to the US and shutdown all of the bases around the world. I will not go that far because we live on a very big planet and like it or not, those vehicle need fuel and if there is not a gas station nearby, they can not function. So I would like to see the US reduce all of the bases outside the US to a skeleton staff that keeps the facilites operational incase they are ever needed.

The resource required by the miliary were helpful after the earthquake in Japan as well as in Jamaca. Yes, sometimes the military can help help out.

The F-22?

Cost just a fraction of the previous versions to maintain and operate.

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jcarmody;

The only part of "our way of life" that this nation's "enemies" want to stop is empire building.  Once we stop trying to take over the world we'll find ourselves much happier.

On the other hand, the "our way of life" that I belive you're talking about (motherhood, baseball and apple pie) *is* under attack, but not from the outside.  Someone wants to take away your guns, but they're not in "the sandbox".  The same thing can be said about your privacy, property, speech, blah, blah, yadda, yadda, evolution, reincarniation, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.  Bacon cheeseburger!

I can't help it. 

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See above about empire building.

Yes it is under attack and the effect is subtle. Conversations with friends over the years have focused on trying to point at where it went wrong and how do we fix it.

As I had written in another thread, the 17th ammendment changed the shape of the US government. The government sorta functions as mob in slow motion with mob rule governing the country.

looking back the 17th was implemented durring the progressive error in the early 1900 (with some pointing back to the cival war onyl a couple of decades earlier). Not being alive then I can only share my understanding of what people were thinking when they went for the 17th (hey, they also passed prohibition durring that time period!).

I understand it as being due to a societal shift away from absolutes to relaventism. In my own words, people stopped thinking that right and wrong was fixed and sure (as is the case with religion) to writting the rules ourselves.

Attacked from within:

The movie 2016 is supposed to address some of your points.

"Can't help it"

If you are trying to help then stop trying to stop it.

I again thank you for the time you spent posting an reading.

Your brother in this grand adventure,

Ben

[jcarmody]

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@Ben wrote:

[...] 

The US is being invaded now. There are regions of the US southwest that are dominated by the drug cartels.

[...]

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That reminds me of another part of "our way of life" - controlling what folks can put into their bodies and stopping other folks from supplying the demand.

The War on Drugs is a gigantic drain on the economy.