Controlling Kistler Quattro Jump Force Plate

[Matt_Sams]

Hi everyone,

Our lab recently acquired a Kistler Quattro Jump force plate (model #9290AD). Supposedly a great plate, but so far I've been unable to set up any sort of communication with it. From a company software side, they don't yet support Windows 7, and lo and behold, all of our computers run Windows 7. "No big deal, I can use LabView," I told myself. In the long run, this would be the better option anyway, as we can integrate accelerometers, potentiometers, etc. if/when we receive more funding. We don't currently have a DAQ system so that sort of integration is a long way off, but the plate has its own amplifier and DAQ built in so we should be able to communicate with it. Back to this in a second.

The other issue is that the plate only has a serial port. Much the same as our Windows situation, none of our computers have serial ports, so I purchased a serial-to-USB converter from the now-defunct Cables Unlimited. I installed the necessary drivers and made sure they are up to date. The port is recognized as COM3 on my desktop and COM4 on my laptop. I attempted running VISA, and in both cases (laptop and desktop), VISA recognizes the plate is there, but I receive "(Hex 0xBFFF0015) Timeout expired before operation completed." I also tried running Instrument Assistant with similar results. I imagine the converter could be the issue in this case, but securing funds for a unit from NI is unlikely at this point in time (yay, Bureaucracy). If anyone has ideas as far as what converter I could look into (if it is the issue), I would appreciate it. If the converter isn't the issue, though...

The user manual (included in the zip) states that the Quattro Jump software sends a signal to the force plate during data collection to turn it on. I reason this could be the issue affecting my ability to connect to the plate through VISA, but that's just speculation at this point. I've attempted to compensate for this by adjusting query time and other settings, but I'm really flying in the dark.

To attack this from another angle, Kistler included a system called QJServer (also included in the zip) to allow for third-party connections to the force plate. It's great they've included it, but as my bad luck seems to be continuing, I don't understand enough about programming to utilize the information they've provided. I downloaded VC++ and poked around with the files, but they're gibberish to me. I've tried running the dll importer and Call Library Function node, but again, I don't really know what I'm looking for in terms of the correct dll/header file. I also don't know if I need to compile my own dll or include a header from the Windows SDK or what. So, I'm hoping someone can at least point me in the right direction. I've heard nada back from Kistler at this point, so any information would be extremely helpful.

As far as what I'm attempting to do on the VI side of things, we're using the plate for jump testing and isometric pull testing with our athletes. The jump collection will look very similar to the VI I've attached (likely sans Scaling and Mapping node), though a friend of mine is currently refining a more complex version that can provide us with instant feedback instead of requiring a separate analysis program.

Sorry if the post is information overload; I'm just attempting to cover all bases. Any help would be appreciated, and I'll be sure to promptly reply to any other questions you might have.

Thanks!

(As a side note, I'm unable to upload the entire Quattro Jump folder as it's about 4 MB too large; these files should contain the main information, though)

[Aldo_A]

Hi Matt,

If you had no luck communicating with the Jump Force Plate via VISA/Serial calls, then the best bet would be to approach it via the C++/VB examples from Kistler. The protocol is listed as "proprietary" so any chance we could get clarification on that comm. would mean contact with the manufacturer only. I glanced at the QJServer and it seems that the only option would be to follow their examples. 

[Albert.Geven]

Hi

I don't see any serial communication in your vi. You are only using the DAQ assistent that is meant for data acquisition hardware from NI.

I've seen this mistake  a number of times last year. Data acquisition via the daq assistent is not communicating via the normal communication busses as serial or gpib.

You need visa to do this.

I'm reworking the Kistler 5015A LabVIEW software at the moment because of some mistakes in their programming and hop to finish that today.

Maybe I can have a look at the manual but I don't promise anything. 

[Matt_Sams]

Hey, everyone, thanks for your replies. I figured as much on the QJServer side of things. I've attempted to get in contact with their regional office here in NY, but haven't heard anything back thus far. When it comes to C++/VB, I have two main issues. 1) I have no programming experience outside LabView, and 2) the examples they have don't seem to mesh well with the version of VC++ I have. I can likely work around the first issue (the examples from their BioWare software had guidelines built in, so I imagine the examples for QJS provide something similar). As far as issue 2 goes, is there another program you would recommend I check out to open the projects?

On the VI side of things, it was actually written by a friend whose lab uses NI equipment. At this point, we probably can't secure funding to purchase a DAQ system. I've used other calling nodes in hopes of finding something that will interface with the plate, but I attached the current VI to provide an example of what I'm looking to do. Once I find a way to interface with the plate, I'll be sure to edit the VI.

Thanks again!

[Albert.Geven]

Hi

no need to switch from LabVIEW to another programming system

I'll check the manual tomorrow and see if my attempts with the 5015a have the same kind of protocol.If so I can publish an example.

Anyhow, the guy within Kistler that did the original software was a bit too clever and mixed up simple ideas and used a lot of programming to make the user interface multilangual.

I have a different approach, make the low level vi's as simple as possible and eventually have a higher level take care of laguage differences.

[Albert.Geven]

I'm sorry, it is quite different or the information is not complete. The QJ server is software that interfaces on the pc side via com with your visual c or vb program. LabVIEW can do that too but  for me it is easier to directly communicate with the rs232 port than via another layer in the pc.

If you can get info on the commands sent to the QJ (maybe via NI-Spy or IO-trace as it is named nowadays it should be doable in LabVIEW.

But the best you can try is to get a document of the communication protocol. Not com but real communication.

[Matt_Sams]

Hey, Albert, thanks for looking into it. I'll give Kistler a call and see what tech support can tell me about the protocol. For now, we've scrounged up a PC running XP that can run the QJ software. It's not the prettiest and doesn't give us everything we need, but it provides enough information for us to get by until we can develop something more suited to our needs.

Thanks again!

[Albert.Geven]

Hi

I used this incomplete driver and on a request I post it here.

It is a more subtle approach than the original kisttler driver but does not solve everything.

[Matt_Sams]

Hey, Albert, I've since moved on from that position but I'll forward your message to my former colleagues. Hopefully they can get some mileage from your post. Thanks!

[Albert.Geven]

Thanks for that.

I posted i reply to a private message and since this is already a bit old, I decided to publish it.

Anyway it is not yet a NI project driver, just a working subset.