Do labVIEW programmers get any RESPECT where YOU work?

[Tim Norris]

I'm fortunate that where I work respect is earned by the quality of your work and not by which programming language you use. As far as the other engineers are concerned I could be hand-crafting everything in assembler and they'd still be happy, just as long as I could provide a program that did what they wanted, worked well and was finished yesterday.

If people do get snotty just ask them why they don't store their programs on punch cards "so you can see the data" or ask them why they don't use the telegraph instead of the phone "because it's important to see the underlying dots and dashes"?

There have been these arguements over which is the best/easiest/fastest programming language for as long as I have been working in electronics, not to mention the "Holy Wars" over different styles within those languages. I think what it really boils down to people being entrenched in their way of doing things and belittling everything else to make themselves feel important

I use LabVIEW as my language of choice 90% of the time as it is the most efficient way of dealing with the tasks I have to do but I have no problem with using other languages where they are more appropriate.

Tim Norris

[Will.D]

I am also a student, and have come to a coop position at a company that was just in transition from VB to LabVIEW. My background was in text-based programming (C, Java, Fortran, Basic, etc.), and I knew my way around VB, but not that well. Since starting here, I have had to update older VB programs, as well as develop new LabVIEW programs. Given that the company was in transition when I arrived, the few people that programmed the applications here were not nearly as knowledgable in LabVIEW as they were in VB. They weren't big fans, and still are not, but that might have been for all the reasons already mentioned.

While I do enjoy the simplicity of LabVIEW (not having to deal with memory stuff as in C), and how easy it is to quickly develop a small program... I find parts of it very annoying. Now, that may just be because I'm so used to the text-based languages, and how to code in them, and not used to the LabVIEW method of coding. Who knows.

The people here that code in LabVIEW get respect, but don't necessarily respect LabVIEW entirely.

[km76107]

You are very right.  I am having the same problems as you are.  Some of my coworkers think that LV is just a GUI tool and more so.. they think that it's just a prototyping tool.  I have tried to convince them that they could make an application as a product, but they prefer to use VB, VC++ etc.  I have given up trying to explain to the ignorants... and keep learning new stuff in LV everyday. 

[falkpl]

Although labview is a great language (I have used it since 1997 now almost religiously) it is a tool and not a cure all.  What labview is great at (automation, control, data analysis , data presentation and most scientific and engineering tasks) I believe it is better than anything else available on the market.  I have found much ignorance about labview and all of us programmers tend to back the language that they are most fluent in.  As for respect, I have found much doubt about the effectiveness of labview but great respect once I have provided the labview solution.  The world was once believed to be flat and it takes a long time to make believers.  I have seen though that the in the research community there are many more believers in labview than just a few years ago, but most would rather I provide the solution before I get the deserved respect.  Remember also that many program managers and decision makers (the guys with the $$$) pre-date labview and some even are older than C, Fortran has been around a long time (I don't want to offend any Fortran gurus) and it takes a good experience for some one to warm up to Labview since it is so radical in its approach.  Give it another 10 years and hopefully Engineering 101, Physics 101 have "Introduction to labview"  as a co-requisite at all universities, then we will get the respect we have been earning.

Paul

[pallen]

The only programmers we have are LV programmers.  (Our machine vision used to be all DVT but is now in the process of converting to LV)

None of us have any formal training, so there's a pretty steep learning curve going on.  Occasionally there's frustration on the management side that some programing tasks take longer to complete than expected.  But these difficulties become both learning experiences and sources of re-usable code.  

Every once in awhile I run into a programmer that has nothing good to say about LV.  Either that it's a "resource hog", or that it's unstable.  These are usually just off the cuff remarks made by people that have even less experience with the platform than I do.  

As far as respect goes; Every time we put out a new machine that not only works but has a really cool interface, the respect level for both LabView and our ability to put it to work in the field goes up.

[LV_Pro]

I make my living, for the most part, developing applications in LabVIEW (hence my moniker), but I try an stress to my customers that I'm an engineer that happens to "mostly" use LabVIEW for my solutions. I too have run into a lot of C/C++ and VB programmers that make a lot of statements about the failings of LabVIEW vs (fill in the blanks). In fact in a major meeting recently I had a program manager state that "Mr.XXX (a local expert engineer) stated that LabVIEW wasn't very good at ... Well, as a consultant here I wasn't about to challenge this program manager publically, but knowing "Mr. XXX" professionally for many years (probably longer than anyone in the room by about a decade!) and respecting him greatly, I really doubt that he has used LabVIEW more than in a minimally investigative sense. Another engineer here has a hard time resisting telling me about the supposed failings in LabVIEW, but recently admitted that he had tried it (LV) briefly, about 10 years ago! Well I can tell you, today's LabVIEW isn't your father's LabVIEW (for those of you in your 20's ).  But essentially, as a previous poster stated, LabVIEW isn't THE solution, it is A solution. It is tending to be a solution more often, as the power of LabVIEW increases, but as in any engineering decisions many factors have to be weighed to decide how to solve the problem, from materials to be used to the tools to mold those materials (LabVIEW). And, as we develop more sophisticated solutions and demonstrate to our associates and management (the "Unbelievers") the power of LabVIEW, then hopefully it will be easier to gain their respect, and hopefully the Big Buck$ !

Keep wiring, it helps a different hemishere of the brain than the text based languages!

P.M.

[gmiles@inventeering.com]

I program mostly in LabVIEW, but I also program in VB, VC++, VB.Net, C#.  I have sat in meeting and listen to C++ programmers tell LabVIEW programmers that LabVIEW can't do that, and I calmly say Yes it Can.  Then I here LabVIEW programmers tell C++ programmers that C++ can't do that, and I calmly say Yes it Can.  There is a lot of ignorance on all sides of programming. 

I love LabVIEW for all the typical reason, productivity, supportability, yata yata…, but some times I get tired of wire-working... Next time a C++ programmer demonstrates his/her ignorance of LabVIEW tell him to think of LabVIEW as G++ (or Graphical C++), tell them what you call structures we call clusters, what you call a class we call a vi, what you call a pointer we call a shift register… you get the idea..

Good Day.

[rolfk]

As an Alliance Mamber most work we do is LabVIEW related and usually even based. So everybody short of administrative staff knows how to do a program in LabVIEW, some teach regular LabVIEW courses  and in general the idea here is that if you need to use C you have a big chance that you do something wrong. Which doesn't mean that we never use C but in general it is reserved for those areas where we have to  interface to external code or program an embedded system for a specific task.

So if those picks from other "real" programmers really keep annoying you why not look to join one of the many NI Alliance members?

Rolf Kalbermatter

[davidpcl]

We get respect from our managers simply because by using Labview we can create applications in half, or sometimes even a quarter of the time of C or C++ which along with other benefits such as less bugs, easier testing, and more reliability means saving a serious amount of money for the company. I still use C and C++ from time to time, but I find with most applications I develop it is almost impossible to choose anything other than Labview. There do seem to be a lot of people out there who still prefer to use a mangle over a washing machine, although as people have said other languages certainly have areas where they are undoubtedly far superior. Right tool for the right job I say.

Message Edited by davidpcl on 02-28-2006 04:33 AM

[Broken_Arrow]

As the originator of this post (back in June of last year), I have found the recent flourish of activity both interesting and morbidly ironic. I was "laid off" from my job late last year. I was the only LabVIEW programmer there. I worked there for over ten years - received have reviews every year. However, being a LabVIEW guy, and an R&D guy at a company that was done with R&D and ready to sell it's two products (one of which I designed and built the first prototype - with LabVIEW - before the new wave of bosses even existed), I was the odd man out. So, the irony is, for me, not only no respect - no job. Luckily, there are places that respect LabVIEW and the programmers that use it. Time to find one. Thanks for the posts.