Introducing LabVIEW 2009

[Ironman99]

Jeffrey,

I really really hope you are hearing me!!!!

I never wrote on this board, but I am a LabView user since LW 3.something and this is the first time I have such a bad impression about NI upgrade policy

I work for the biggest Italian telecoms company, in the telecommunication research field, and I DO use mathscript. I wrote my own library full of functions based on that node, for calculating cables characteristics, network's tranfert functions and so on... I use complex calculation, and everythig is easer if I can directly write formulas. Just to give you an example...

LW 2009 has several new feature that I am interested in, but I am prevented to use it because of your silly decision to REMOVE a function!!! REMOVE?!?!?!?

So my company payed an SSP, and I can't use the new version? I can't understand why you have not left the old mathscript node version in LW2009, and made available (for some cost) a tookit, full of new features, for people that really WANT it... I am not at all interested in RT, but what I expect is to be able to reuse my code. I could understand if, for some reason, a function becomes outdated and deprecated in favour of a brand and better new function's version, but still I expect a reasonable period of time where both version can be used and moreover I expect that the new function becomes available for REPLACING the old one at the cost of the SSP, as in the past. What do you give me in place of mathscript node at the cost of SSP? NOTHING... I am very very angry!

What I expect now is an LW2009 patch that reintroduces the old mathscript node version for those people, like me, that do not need more than what they have already payed for in previous LW versions. Take in account that we have already payed and time runs..

Sincerely

Marco Ferro

[Dennis_Knutson]

Am I misunderstanding Jeffrey's statement or did you fail to read it all:

Jeffrey P wrote: 

We realized that many of our existing customers would be put off by this decision, so we implemented a "grandfather" clause of sorts.  Any existing LabVIEW user current on their SSP contract (including single-seat, Developer Suite, or VLA) can "purchase" the new LabVIEW MathScript RT Module for $0.  This purchase will include one year of service, and at the conclusion of that year, you will only be expected to pay the renewal price to stay current with the Module.  As a Developer Suite customer, that renewal price is even lower than with a single-seat contact.  You can contact your local Sales Engineer or call into NI, as the systems are in place to handle this order.

It would seem to me that you just need to make a phone call. And if you want to continue after a year, you pay a renewal fee and that would appear to be some fraction of the full license fee. While I can sympathize, I don't think it's correct to say that 2009 actually removed anything. Not if you can get the functionality be making a call.

[Intaris]

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Dennis Knutson wrote:

Am I misunderstanding Jeffrey's statement or did you fail to read it all:

Jeffrey P wrote: 

We realized that many of our existing customers would be put off by this decision, so we implemented a "grandfather" clause of sorts.  Any existing LabVIEW user current on their SSP contract (including single-seat, Developer Suite, or VLA) can "purchase" the new LabVIEW MathScript RT Module for $0.  This purchase will include one year of service, and at the conclusion of that year, you will only be expected to pay the renewal price to stay current with the Module.  As a Developer Suite customer, that renewal price is even lower than with a single-seat contact.  You can contact your local Sales Engineer or call into NI, as the systems are in place to handle this order.

It would seem to me that you just need to make a phone call. And if you want to continue after a year, you pay a renewal fee and that would appear to be some fraction of the full license fee. While I can sympathize, I don't think it's correct to say that 2009 actually removed anything. Not if you can get the functionality be making a call.

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In fairness it removed the ability to use it WITHOUT having to phone anyone.

It also removes the idea that you'll be able to use the old functionality next year for the same money.

It most certainly has removed something.  There is a one-year grace period, but after that it's cough up or stop using it.

Shane.

[Dennis_Knutson]

My thinking is that version 2010 is where it will be gone unless you cough up the renewal fee (what's the renewal fee on a $500 license?). In any case, I think some of the hysteria to immediately patch 2009 is unwarranted. Make the phone call to activate it and lobby NI to change the polciy before 2010 gets released next year.

[Intaris]

I thought that's what people were doing?

I suppose if people missed the fact about the free year's extension (it could maybe be more prominently communicated) then they're simply barking up the wrong tree demanding an immediate fix.

Maybe I misunderstood the argument.  

Shane

Message Edited by Intaris on 08-12-2009 04:37 PM

[hecmar.arreola]

@Dennis - The $0 cost for the MathScript RT Module is only good for a year.  My SSP is up for renewal in December of this year.  That means, that if I don't BUY the MathScript Support in December of this year, when the Summer 2010 edition comes out my MathScript will stop working unless I refuse to upgrade.

My options are:

*Pony up an extra couple hundred for a module that adds back a feature that I've already used in December -- doesn't seem like a reasonable option for me.

*Pay the cost of renewing my SSP w/o the MathScript RT Module and only have half a year worth of updates that are usable -- another bad option for me.

*Not renew SSP and stick with the last version of LabVIEW I end up with until there is a compelling reason to upgrade -- crappy option, but most reasonable.

NI better change their mind about this soon, or they will lose SSP customers.  As much as getting on SSP costs initially, it will be very hard to get them back...  The hysteria is 100% warrented.

Edit:

I agree that a 2009 immediate patch is not needed, but a response from NI is needed and before December (for me anyway).

Message Edited by Nickerbocker on 08-12-2009 03:43 PM

[Dennis_Knutson]

Ni, I think I improperly stated it. I simply wanted to point out that an immediate fix is not required and the rhetoric about 2009 and NI's decision needs to be toned down a bit.

[Intaris]

One thing I can certainly agree with is that it leaves a very bitter aftertaste.

First VI Analyzer, then Mathscript.... The logical conclusion is to ask what will be next?

It kind of shakes the foundations of trust between customers and the company.  It's not illegal but it's like breaking a promise.

But then, we've heard on multiple occasions that "hardcore" LV programmers simply aren't the target market for LV so maybe we're not important?

Shane.

PS Response to Dennis above: Some of us are on quite tight budgets at the moment and this is a very unwelcome development.  I see the immediate panic as being somewhat premature but the feeling of dismay at the way it has been communicated / executed as justified.

Message Edited by Intaris on 08-12-2009 04:45 PM

[Dennis_Knutson]

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Nickerbocker wrote:

@Dennis - The $0 cost for the MathScript RT Module is only good for a year.  My SSP is up for renewal in December of this year.  That means, that if I don't BUY the MathScript Support in December of this year, when the Summer 2010 edition comes out my MathScript will stop working unless I refuse to upgrade.

My options are:

*Pony up an extra couple hundred for a module that adds back a feature that I've already used in December -- doesn't seem like a reasonable option for me.

*Pay the cost of renewing my SSP w/o the MathScript RT Module and only have half a year worth of updates that are usable -- another bad option for me.

*Not renew SSP and stick with the last version of LabVIEW I end up with until there is a compelling reason to upgrade -- crappy option, but most reasonable.

NI better change their mind about this soon, or they will lose SSP customers.  As much as getting on SSP costs initially, it will be very hard to get them back...  The hysteria is 100% warrented.

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Have you asked what the renewal cost is? I don't think it's a couple of hundred per license.

Having been employed by a company that did not renew it's SSP, I can tell you from personal experience that upgrading without it after missing a few years is far, far more expensive, even with the additional fee.

[Intaris]

IIRC SSP renewal costs normally run at about 20% of the normal price?  that would make $100 for a $500 toolkit.

Shane.

PS That means you have to skip 6 years of LabVIEW in order for the lack of an SSP to make sense.  When I think of LV 6 years ago and today, that's not a very attractive proposition.

Message Edited by Intaris on 08-12-2009 04:48 PM

Message Edited by Intaris on 08-12-2009 04:49 PM