Questions to NI

[Norbert_B]

Partha,

i am not hurt in any ways. I just wanted to point out that if the feedback shows to much of the emotional feelings of the poster, it could be easily mistaken as exaggeration. If this happens, the feedback is likely to be discarded. 

Nevertheless, i am wondering why my question regarding "What are the services" is not answered yet since without that information, we cannot find out which components are included in the build. If we don't know the components, we cannot get rid of them.......

Norbert 

[MaSta]

Hi Partha!

I'd rather say disappointment, not frustration.

You seem to be mistaken about Norbert. I've never replied to him. And I don't think he's hurt just by reading this thread. He seems to be german like me, judging from the name, and we germans are not so extremely sensitive as the others around here seem to be.

I did not know that a clear speech could hurt someone. Or offense someone, since I didn't speak to the other users, but to NI. Though it seems, there are no NI officials reading this forum.

[rolfk]

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Maik S. wrote:

Hi Partha!

I'd rather say disappointment, not frustration.

You seem to be mistaken about Norbert. I've never replied to him. And I don't think he's hurt just by reading this thread. He seems to be german like me, judging from the name, and we germans are not so extremely sensitive as the others around here seem to be.

I did not know that a clear speech could hurt someone. Or offense someone, since I didn't speak to the other users, but to NI. Though it seems, there are no NI officials reading this forum.

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Well, what is clear speech and what is venting frustration can be quite something to debate about. We Europeans and Germans especially can be sometimes very direct about these things.

But while it does ligthen your mood for the moment it usually lowers the chance very substantially to get constructive solutions offered,  especially in an international setting. like it or not but LabVIEW is developed in America and there you get much more success by telling them what you like about their product and then mention what you would like to see improved and of course this latter should be done in a constructive manner, not in a accusing one.

Expressions like "complains" and "looking for ways to circumvent the disaster" are NOT constructive in any way.

And all people with a blue name are NI employees and there have been such people answering. But they would not write a single word than writing something that could be construed to be unfriendly. It is an American company after all and you can get sacked easily for being anything but helpful and friendly to customers. Something many people here in Europe never would be even worrying about.

Rolf Kalbermatter

Message Edited by rolfk on 08-27-2009 04:27 PM

[Andrey_Dmitriev]

Hi, Maik,

Most of your questions are "rhetoric questions without any possible answers". Its just given reality. You working with LabVIEW and you have just two choices: use it if you like it, or don't use it if you don't like it. Nothing more. If you interesting about details of each file included into installer, you can get this info, just be very specific in your questions. If your own language missing in installer, then use third-party installer tool such InstallShield. Personally I also not very happy with overhead in Installers, IDE and Run-Time and some toolkits. Sure, I prefer to have LabVIEW which can be delivered on single CD, and resulting installer, which not exceeded 1,44MB and can be deployed on 3,5" floppy disk. Unfortunately our world more and more complicated, and software growing and growing... But when you will switch back to the text-oriented language, then you will get lot of other disadvantages... For example, right now I working with DirectShow in C++... Its just pure HELL in comparison with LabVIEW, believe me!

Andrey.

[MaSta]

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Andrey Dmitriev wrote:

Hi, Maik,

Most of your questions are "rhetoric questions without any possible answers". Its just given reality. You working with LabVIEW and you have just two choices: use it if you like it, or don't use it if you don't like it. Nothing more. If you interesting about details of each file included into installer, you can get this info, just be very specific in your questions. If your own language missing in installer, then use third-party installer tool such InstallShield. Personally I also not very happy with overhead in Installers, IDE and Run-Time and some toolkits. Sure, I prefer to have LabVIEW which can be delivered on single CD, and resulting installer, which not exceeded 1,44MB and can be deployed on 3,5" floppy disk. Unfortunately our world more and more complicated, and software growing and growing... But when you will switch back to the text-oriented language, then you will get lot of other disadvantages... For example, right now I working with DirectShow in C++... Its just pure HELL in comparison with LabVIEW, believe me!

Andrey.

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Dear Andrey,

a rhetoric question is a question that someone asks while already knowing the answer.

My questions are questions to NI and they could answer them. There must be reasons why some things have been done like this or that. If they could give a plausible reason why I can't select subpackages of VISA when building an application, then I would understand, take it as it is and shut up. But I guess they won't or can't.

Why do you think I could choose to use LabView or not? My boss decided that we use LabView and then I HAVE to use it. I'm not the programmer in this case, but I tested the installer (such as a user we give our software to would do) and I think it's a p.i.t.a. Not the installer itself, of course. But what it does. And it makes my angry being unable to change it.

Floppy disk? Who in the world is still using floppy disks in the year 2009?!?!?! For us, it doesn't matter if it is 5MB or 10MB. But it does matter if it's 10MB or 100MB!

[F._Schubert]

I just have the impression that Maik isn't liking LV at all. And that it hasn't to do with LV at all.

Felix 

[Dennis_Knutson]

Maik,

Can this get back to the subject matter?

You've been repeatedly asked for the services you find objectionable. Please provide the names and some justification that they are consuming bandwidth.

Regarding the VISA runtime, i believe the 7.x option of providing a serial only runtime was a mistake. I'm suspect that because of it, NI got requests for GPIB only runtimes, USB only runtimes, Ethernet only runtimes, etc. To provide that many different versions, would have made maintanance a nightmare and would have greatly increased the number of resources needed for that. It's not that different than the users asking for a separate DAQmx driver for a specific device. It's just not practical - at least not an keep the drivers free. Poll your clients and ask if they would rather have a smaller installer or pay for each driver. Also, as someone who has provided code to many customers, I like the fact that a new driver is not required if an instrument is converted from serial to GPIB or from serial to USB, etc. By installing the full VISA runtime - even with LabVIEW 7, a customer could be kept fat, dumb, and happy and I wasn't bothered by a lot of support calls.

[Norbert_B]

Maik,

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[...]But I guess they won't or can't.[...] 

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 This is not true. NI does care about feedback given in the forums. Best example would be the product idea board, where ideas are collected and NI does indeed pick ideas and implement them in newer versions of LV (even if most LV users would think that the amount of ideas implemented is too small.... ).

Even this very thread is one NI is aware of and is looking into.

Re-reading the comments you have written, i would place you in the Linux-party because of your desire to manage everything on your system by yourself. This might be understandable, but for most users, way too complex. Let's go into detail:

What if the VISA installer would be 40MB smaller, but would require the system to have certain components to be installed already (for instance Visual C++ Runtime  8.0). If someone misses this, he has an useless installer. And he would ask, with the same right like you: Why does the installer not install anything which is required for the application? Why do i have to preinstall X other software components in order to have a successfull deployment?

NI is more of the cautious type here, like Microsoft. NI Installers do bring components, which might be useless for quite some applications. But if an application needs that part, it is available.....

You can argue about that, and you are correct that there might be some potential to reduce the size, but it definetly will not go down to the size you want to have it.

@rolk wrote:

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[...] And all people with a blue name are NI employees and there have been such people answering.[...] 

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@that is not true. There are people with blue names who are not employed at NI. This is a lithium thing where an email starting with @User002 will result in a blue name plate. But it's true for most blue names 😉

Norbert 

[Andréy Dmitriév]

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Norbert B wrote:

There are people with blue names who are not employed at NI. This is a lithium thing where an email starting with @ni will result in a blue name plate. But it's true for most blue names 😉

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This seems to be true...  😉

 Andrey. 

[rolfk]

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Norbert B wrote:

That is not true. There are people with blue names who are not employed at NI. This is a lithium thing where an email starting with @ni will result in a blue name plate. But it's true for most blue names 😉

Norbert 

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Thanks for enligthening me . I was really under the impression that this was something that was specifically managed since I have seen people going away from NI and turning from blue to non-blue (ahem not insuinating anything here )

On the other hand the very few I have come across that appeared blue but were not working for NI turned out to have worked for NI at some point. So I deduced wrongly that it was just an oversight by the admins.

Changing the Lithium rule to @ni.com would certainly fix that wouldn't it?

Rolf Kalbermatter

Message Edited by rolfk on 08-27-2009 07:51 PM