RT USB Format suddenly not finding Hard Drive

[Yevoc42]

For a remote desktop RT PC running LabVIEW RT 8.6, I had tested 8 different motherboards in an attempt to get LabVIEW Real-Time (Pharlap) to recognize an RT desktop’s SATA hard-drive and network card.  We had finally found a single motherboard that allowed LabVIEW Real-time to recognize and format the SATA hard drive to run pharlap.

Unfortunately, that ASUS motherboard has been discontinued, so we had to hunt once again for motherboards that would run correctly with LabVIEW Real-Time.  After some effort, we did find another motherboard which allowed the USB format utility to format the SATA drive and successfully boot the RT pharlap environment.  Upon this success, our company proceeded to order a large number of these new motherboards in case they too became discontinued.  However, the very same motherboard which operated correctly 2 weeks ago can no longer see the SATA hard drive through LabVIEW real-time, even though the BIOS correctly recognizes the hard drive.

I find it particularly bizarre because the hard drive does actually boot to LabVIEW Real-time on its own, but upon booting via the hard drive, Pharlap states “Error booting hard drive program,” and proceeds to run in safe mode *on the very same hard drive*.  Any attempts to reformat this drive via the 8.5.1 or 8.6 usb utility now result in “Unable to detect ATA/SATA hard drive” even though the very same usb, hard drive, and motherboard worked correctly in re-formatting, installing, and running remote VIs 2 weeks ago.

If you could please provide any insight into this madness, it would be greatly appreciated.  For reference, we had previously used the ASUS P5K motherboard (which is now discontinued) and are now experiencing our mixed success/failure on the Foxconn G33M motherboard. Both of these motherboards use the ICH9 chipset that is AHCI and IDE compatibility capable, which is a requirement for desktop RTs.

[Will_S.]

Hi Yevoc42,

In order to help you format the disk, I would suggest doing the following:

1) Check the health of your hard drive. Use software that came with your harddrive or desktop system in order to perform a health test on the hard drive. Confirm that the harddrive is in good condition, and see if you can fix any problems that may be present.

2) Go to http://www.bootdisk.com and create a DOS bootdisk. Use this disk to startup your desktop and use the command "format c" in order to format the hard-drive. Since the BIOS can see the hard-drive, hopefully DOS will be able to as well.

What happened within the two weeks where the motherboard no longer functioned properly? Were you using it consistently and then it just stopped recognizing the drive? Had you left it unused for a while? Did you install other hardware or remove the harddrive at any time?

Also, see the following article to make sure that all of your hardware is supported for creating an RT desktop: http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/440BAF128AA75F95862572580081EB3D?OpenDocument

Will

[dan_u]

Did you try the different modes available for the hard drive in the BIOS?

For some mainboards we had to switch the SATA mode to 'IDE' (might be called differently on other BIOS) instead of AHCI. Also it might be possible to set it to enhanced, compatible or other modes.

If you're lucky one of the modes will work...

Else you could still try to use IDE hard drives.

[Yevoc42]

I've tried multiple hard drives that were full formatted to FAT16 and FAT32 in Windows XP and got the same result.
During the two week period, the motherboard had been removed from its case and sat on my desk with anti-static covers draped over and under it.  I've been trying the motherboard without a case ever since, as that would confound issues further.

To make matters worse, I've been trying new motherboards with the ICH10 and ICH10R southbridge chipsets (AHCI and legacy IDE compatible), and the USB format utility freezes at "Transferring control to user program," so I can't even get to attempting a hard drive format there.  I've tried changing the USB settings to Legacy as suggested in the NI literature and even unplugging the hard drives entirely, as the other motherboard still boots to the USB without a hard drive present, and it still hangs at the same place before the utility loads.

I've gone through every possible iteration of BIOS settings (especially the IDE ones) on every motherboard I've tried.  Ever since the ICH8 chipset, I've never managed to get an actual PATA (IDE) drive to work either.

Here is a list of motherboards we've tried that didn't work due to either the USB utility hanging or the hard drive not being seen:

Intel DG33BU
TYAN S5220AG2NR
ASUS P5E-VM DO
ASUS P5N-MX
ABIT IP35 Pro
SuperMicro C2SBA

ASUS P5Q

MSI P45 Neo

The ASUS P5K worked but is discontinued, and the Foxconn G33M is the one that worked 2 weeks ago but doesn't now.

[dan_u]

Booting from USB seems to be a delicate issue, I had problems with this as well. Did not work on some of the mainboards we tried. But this doesn't mean that the mainboard doesn't support LV RT.

What we do now is to set up the RT hard drive using an image tool (connect the hard drive to a PC using a SATA/IDE to USB converter and apply an image to it). This works just fine.

To set up the first PC (to have an image source) we connected a floppy drive (internal, not USB) to format the hard drive (Format disk), then install LVRT from MAX.

We used the ASUS P5B mainboard at some point, this didn't work with IDE hard drives but works fine with SATA hard drives.

I didn't try to narrow down which mainboards work and which don't so I can't tell whether it's the chipset, hard drive controller, BIOS, ... that makes the difference.

[Yevoc42]

Talk about a painful, in-depth workaround.  I'll have to try that approach and get back to you.

[Will_S.]

It sounds like through all this testing you have only been using the USB Utility. Although this is typically the recommended method, we have heard of additional issues where USB is not recognized or hangs.

Because of this, if dan_u's suggestion doesn't work, I'd suggest creating a floppy Desktop PC Format Hard Drive Disk from MAX (Tools >> RT Disk Utilities >> Create Desktop PC Format Hard Drive Disk). Then connect directly to your host PC, assign it an IP address and see if you can install the software in MAX. The Format Hard Drive Disk is designed to prepare the drive for an LVRT install.

If the floppy format disk can't see the hard drive, then try a floppy boot disk first, and format the hard drive that way.

Another suggestion is to use the Desktop PC Evaluation tool in order to confirm that your hardware is supported for LVRT. It can be used via USB or floppy. Instructions for this are found here: http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/9209361E17708D548625744A007FF353?OpenDocument

Will

[dan_u]

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Yevoc42 wrote:
Talk about a painful, in-depth workaround.  I'll have to try that approach and get back to you.

---

It's not painful at all in our case, it even simplified things a lot. We have to set up several identical systems. This is really quick if you can just apply an image to the RT hard drive and you're done. No need to use format disk or MAX once you have a running image.

[Yevoc42]

Well, the floppy format didn't work on any of these boards:

ASUS P5Q

MSI P45 Neo

Foxconn G33M

ASUS P5KPL-CM

After putting the imaged SATA drive (formatted via 8.5.1 floppy disk) in, each and every one of these boards would show "Loading LabVIEW Real-Time....," (which I've never seen before) and then hang.  I also tried an IDE drive formatted via floppy, and that gave the same result.

Fortunately, I managed to find a stash of the P5KPL-CM boards, which are essentially identical to the normal ASUS P5Ks which correctly format the SATA drive from the 8.5.1 USB utility.  Once the utility recognizes the SATA drive, it's all smooth sailing from there, as the hard drive will actually work.

Since none of the other boards work, I'm just going to buy as many of these boards as I can and hope I can hibernate long enough for NI to actually test and fix both the USB utility and Pharlap to work on recent motherboards with SATA.  It'll be a battle of wills, but I'm holding my breath.

For reference to any who find themselves in the same peril, my working 8.6 RT motherboard has the G31 and ICH7 (not ICH7R) chipsets.  (The original P5K also works, and it has the G33 and ICH9 (not ICH9R) chipsets)