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Tired of Dell\HP\etc!

I understand that such a guaranteed-compatible system would command a certain pricing premium.  But if NI does go this route, *please* keep your pricing dynamic. 
 
Example: I put together a PXI system a couple years ago.  The charge for a standard laptop-style 1GB memory module was (and still is!) $1000.  I bought 3rd party (Crucial) for something like $90 and I'm sure it'd be even lower now.   There was just *no way* I could justify purchasing from NI at that price. 
 
-Kevin P.
ALERT! LabVIEW's subscription-only policy came to an end (finally!). Unfortunately, pricing favors the captured and committed over new adopters -- so tread carefully.
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Message 11 of 16
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Just my two cents but I replace all of the comm ports with a 7811 FPGA card.  Now I have total control of my data stream and as a benefit I get true deterministic behavior.  The code is easily move to other NI FPGA targets.
Visualize the Solution

CLA

LabVIEW, LabVIEW FPGA
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Message 12 of 16
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Just to comment on the Dell Precision 390. If you do get one of these and expect to use all of the PCI slots you are mistaken. The PCI slot that is on the bottom will not hold any NI card nor any other for that matter because the bay for the extra hard drive is right in the way. If you do not need the extra drive then you can take it out with some brute force.

Just my two cents on that style of Dell




Joe.
"NOTHING IS EVER EASY"
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Message 13 of 16
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You will find that the consumer/business PC suppliers react to the "system of the moment" and have few or no long term products.  For long term availability of revision controlled systems, you need to go to a handfull of good industrial suppliers.  These companies sell into military and industrial programs where the requirement for product consistency is more important than having the latest bleeding edge feature.  Many of these programs go for years where the last and the first system have to be identical.
 
As far as I've been able to find, no long life industrial motherboards are available with dual or quad core Xeon.  The best performance I've found is Core 2 Duo.  A board might exist but I've not found it yet.  The industrial motherboards claim product availability of 5 years or so.  Not something Dell or Supermicro can claim.
 
An alternative to an ATX system (motherboard) is a Single Board Computer (System Host Board) and an active / passive backplane.  There are SHBs providing up to dual Quad Core Xeon for performance with all the latest features such as SATA/RAID and dual gigabit Ethernet.  The backplanes are available with a mix of PCI Express, PCI and PCI-X.  Legacy support for ISA boards can also be spec'd though I've not seen a backplane with PCI Express and ISA together.  Virtually any number of slots of any type can be found.
 
A good reference and source for SHBs and backplanes can be found at http://www.chassis-plans.com/single_board_computers.html
 
I've used Chassis Plans http://www.chassis-plans.com in the past with great success.  These guys seem to concentrate on custom long term solutions and do a good job.  You have a problem and they can solve it.  They've got some crazy stuff on their web site they've done for people.  My favorite is Son of Monster at http://www.chassis-plans.com/custom-showcase.html, down a few from the top.  We needed a bunch of test systems with a custom rear panel and they performed marvellously.  The systems were neatly built and well organized.  They gave us a copy of their integration instruction book showing how the systems would be built the same for future builds.  Easy crew to work with.
 
These guys would have no problem providing systems to meet your wish list.  From what I've seen, products becoming obsolete won't be an issue.  They also offer custom branding though we didn't use that because our systems were for in-house production testing.
 
Realize that these types of systems are more expensive than the Dells of the world.  But we've found hardware costs are the lowest cost component of a system with software and system qualification and test being much more expensive.  Our total cost of ownership is lower since we now don't have to continuously requalify hardware platforms.
 
Our experience with Kontron was positive but they seem to be getting more into boards and out of systems.  Advantech is big but very Taiwanese.  A lot of the companies such as ICI and Core Systems sell the same stuff so I'd be looking for somebody who's been around for awhile to make sure they will be there to support you in the future. 
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I think instead of trying to get a system with it all, NI should try to move their products forward.  Most USB to Serial Converters are not worth the plastic they are made of, over here, we use PCI to serial converters, and a move to more PCIe slots would require us to need a PCIe to serial converter, which I haven't seen yet.  With the speed of PCIe, you could fit a large handful of Serial ports AND parallel ports (also nice) into a box (or maybe a large number of smaller breakouts, so if you only needed two of the 20, you wouldn't have to have a giant box, but it would be easy to add a port with a small plug)
 
As for PCI and ISA, someone already mentioned the PCIe box for PCI cards.
 
Message 15 of 16
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My hand is up, with an agreement about the pricing model, re: components readily available (memory, HD) priced closer to the rest of industry. As to USB-serial converters, I've used quite a few with mixed results. If the baud rate is moderate to low the seem to work reasonably well, but as you get to higher rates or require critical flow control they start behaving badly. As to using an FPGA card, well considering the cost of development, cost of the board, uniqueness (can only be replaced with an identical solution at $1.2K + plus) not sure how wide spread a solution that would be. I've been suffering the difficulty of finding reasonable machines with the required functionality, and finding them with WinXP is even harder.  Microsoft is telling those suppliers that currently provide Xp as an alternative to Vista that they must cease as of January 31st. It is getting harder and harder to try and configure a system for a customer that will be supportable on the long term. As to "factory support", in a regular "desktop" computer (vs a laptop), what needs factory support past the regular warantee period. Most of the hardware failures usually occur pretty soon after purchase, and on a desktop everything else should be able to be acquired at your local computer store (power supplies, memory, etc.) faster than sending them back. As to phone support, well my experience over the last 15 years hasn't been very positive.

As to "advances in technology", eliminating serial ports, etc., are more for cost savings, allowing the manufacturers to sell computer systems for $300 now. Admittedly, the average user probably doesn't know what a serial port is, much less care that they haven't one. When I asked in my last iteration of laptops a couple of years ago whether any came with a serial port, the salesman looked at me like I was asking whether they came with buggy whips, "why would you need one!!".  I explained that I still had to connect to various instruments, some legacy, some new that had serial ports. Then the look changed to him trying to tell which solar system I had come from.  Try and find a machine with floppy drives! Understand that I love USB for many things, have half a dozen "thumb drives", a portable 250gB HD, NI USB-DAQ card, etc., but wish that there was a way to have actual ports, rather than "adapters", when I'm trying to develop in environments where timing may be critical.











Message Edited by LV_Pro on 10-23-2007 10:33 AM

Putnam
Certified LabVIEW Developer

Senior Test Engineer North Shore Technology, Inc.
Currently using LV 2012-LabVIEW 2018, RT8.5


LabVIEW Champion



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