LabVIEW

cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

analog output with 18bit resolution

Hi.
 
I´m searching for a 18bit analog output module for PXI. Does someone know such a module?
 
Thank you
 
0 Kudos
Message 1 of 9
(4,612 Views)

I could not locate any 18 bit DAC module,

But PXI 4461 has 2 AO channels with 24 bit resolution DAC

 

0 Kudos
Message 2 of 9
(4,611 Views)
A paper was presented at the Poster session at NIWeek showing how someone extended the resolution of a DAC by using PWM on the LSB. I think the paper indicated they had patented the method. I am not sure if the poster session papers are available online.

Lynn
0 Kudos
Message 3 of 9
(4,602 Views)
It is the Hyperbit Technology patented by PI (Physik Instrumente). Patent is available online on goggle patents. They do high resolution DAC at the const of lower sampling rate. Hope this helps
0 Kudos
Message 4 of 9
(4,318 Views)

Yes, this is the HyperBit technology from Physik Instrumente. It is used within PI's LabVIEW driver set for Analog Control (which allows to "command" every analog controller in the same way as any digital controller from PI, plus the option to use Hyperbit for a higher bit resolution than the DAQ board offers, provided that the DAQ board is from NI). If you are interested in using the algorithm for other things, please contact me via PN.

Regards,

Gabs

0 Kudos
Message 5 of 9
(4,281 Views)

I am very interested to know more about Hyperbit. I am working on a long range nanopositioning system. The positioning system has to provide 1 nm resolution over 10mm. Therefore, requirement for the dynamic range is 10mm/1nm = 24 bits (approx).

We bought NI PXI4461 sometime back. It has 24 bit AO but it is supposed to be used as dynamic signal analyser.We tried to use it in a closed loop at very low frequency, but we were not able to achieve even 10 Hz loop rate. We got help with engineers at NI but we couldn't find a solution to the problem.Apparently, there is a lot of delay at the output due to buffering. 

However, we also have one NI PXI6281 which has a 16 bit AO. There is not problem of running this one even at 5KHz loop rate.

 

1) Could we use something like hyperbit to get higher performance (in terms of number of bits). We are ready to sacrifice on the bandwidth up to 1 KHz.

2) Hyperbit may increase the number of bits, but what about the electronic noise of the DAC? Does the effective resolution still remains the same. Or there is an improvement in the effective resolution also?

 

Please let me know what you think

Thanks a lot.

Message Edited by gaurav.parmar on 11-05-2009 11:33 AM
0 Kudos
Message 6 of 9
(4,261 Views)

Sorry for the delay, I have contacted the developer of the algorithm in the mean time.

 

Let me summarize his remarks:

 

We can certainly help you extend the DAC bitness.  Are you aware that other limitations might come into play, such as amplifier noise and certainly the ambient environment, which must be very well controlled to achieve this sort of precision? 

How will you measure positional performance?

 

1) The card you mentioned is capable of 204.8 kS/s.  How odd that it would take 100msec to buffer up a waveform. A quality, instrumentation-grade 16-bit DAC plus HyperBit might actually be an ideal option for your application.

 

Did you mean that the same waveform, when fed to this card, buffers and begins execution within 200usec?  That still sounds maybe a little slow, but it seems more than adequate for what you want to do.  Once it is running a waveform, it is capable of 2.8 MS/s.  Nice card!

 

To start our discussion, let's assume you continue to update the output at 5kHz, although even 1kHz should be plenty considering the bandwidth you are likely to get from a motion mechanism capable of 10mm travel.  Also, there would be no point updating the DAC process any faster than your loop rate. Without going into detail, we calculated that at full speed of 2.8MS/s the resolution increase would be about 9 bits-- 2X more than you need. 2.8MS/s might load up the bus a bit, though, so you might want to consider slowing things down.  Note that you can improve resolution by 5X (two and a half more bits) by reducing the bit rate to 1kHz.  Then, you could slow the card's update rate by a factor of five, which would benefit your bus' responsiveness, and still gain your 9 bits resolution improvement.  Since buffering overhead is already an issue for you, this is probably a good idea.  I doubt your mechanism can benefit from a loop rate greater than 1kHz anyway. At a 1kHz bit rate, you could achieve your target 8 bit resolution improvement by running the card at only 280kS/s-- the card is loafing at that rate, so this should be no problem.

 

2) Any noise introduced is equal to one LSB in amplitude, by definition.  There is already bit noise at this level for any DAC.  We are merely modifying the noise statistics, concentrating it at the actual update rate, which should (and in this case undoubtedly is!) chosen to be significantly higher than the stage's resonant frequency.  I really doubt you'll see positional noise at that frequency, thanks to the physical rolloff of the system.  Frankly, I ever have, and I've looked for it. 


  
Are you using the PI Analog GCS library, or would you want a low-level HyperBit VI? 

 

If you would like to go on with this and you are interested in using this algorithm, please send me a PN with your email address and contact information and I will get you in direct contact with the developer of the algorithm.

 

Regards,

Gabs

0 Kudos
Message 7 of 9
(4,223 Views)

Ooops - I just realized - is it possible that one cannot send PN's here in this forum?

So my suggestion didn't make much sense... If you want to contact me directly, let me know here please. If you don't want to leave your email address here we'll find another way.

0 Kudos
Message 8 of 9
(4,154 Views)

I'm the developer Gabs mentioned, and discovered this forum post rather late in the game!

 

For future reference, feel free to contact me via email: scottj "at" pi-usa.us or scott.c.jordan "at" gmail.com.

 

There have been various implementations, mostly LabVIEW and LabVIEW FPGA, but there's no reason it must be limited to those.  It can be implemented in hardware as well, as the patent discusses (http://www.google.com/patents?id=t5kVAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=6950050)

 

Best regards,

 

--Scott Jordan

  PI

0 Kudos
Message 9 of 9
(3,684 Views)