consumer loop slowing down producer loop

[pschmal2]

Ah, one question I forgot, do subVI frontpanels affect the UI update? I don't have the subVI windows open during this.

[pschmal2]

I just did the extreme thing and deleted all front panel objects except for the plot, and the performance didn't improve.

As to what level I would like to see this run at, at least 10% the speed of surf() would be nice!

[RavensFan]

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@pschmal2 wrote:

Re: FPS, I used to work in a control room for a TV station, and we recorded at ~60fps and then there was some downconversion to ~30fps to send out over broadcast. Two monitors next to each other gave the raw feed and the broadcast feed, and it was super noticable, to the point where watching normal TV started to get annoying because it felt molasses-y.

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I'm sure side by side comparisons will make it more noticeable.  And since you were doing that as a profession, it makes you more sensitive to seeing differences then most people would.

Speaking of TV, I've noticed a couple trends lately I find annoying.  I'd like if others could confirm they are seeing the same thing.  Some of it sounds very similar to what you describe.

1.  A lot of times during the sports section of the local news, when they show highlights of different games, the video looks very herky jerky and really poor resolution.  It's like the video has been heavily degraded by too much digitizing and compression.  I see it whether the TV is on a high def channel or a normal channel.  Whether it is through my FIOS box or through over the air TV.

2.  Some TV shows seem to encode their video in a format that kind of shows the same thing.  I've seen it on some game shows like jeopardy or wheel of fortune.  The video resolution seems okay, but the motion is very herky jerky.  Like when they show the contestants clapping, something just doesn't seem right.  Like frames are discarded and the motion is not very fluid.

In my opinion, while things like digital TV and high definition are some great technological advancements, sometimes the digitizing winds up making things look worse than the days of analog TV. And don't get me started on the whole thing with aspect ratios where nobody has any consistency on the size and shape of a screen.  You are sometimes forced to watch things with black bands, or with parts of the screen cut off.

[Ben]

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@RavensFan wrote:

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@pschmal2 wrote:

Re: FPS, I used to work in a control room for a TV station, and we recorded at ~60fps and then there was some downconversion to ~30fps to send out over broadcast. Two monitors next to each other gave the raw feed and the broadcast feed, and it was super noticable, to the point where watching normal TV started to get annoying because it felt molasses-y.

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I'm sure side by side comparisons will make it more noticeable.  And since you were doing that as a profession, it makes you more sensitive to seeing differences then most people would.

Speaking of TV, I've noticed a couple trends lately I find annoying.  I'd like if others could confirm they are seeing the same thing.  Some of it sounds very similar to what you describe.

1.  A lot of times during the sports section of the local news, when they show highlights of different games, the video looks very herky jerky and really poor resolution.  It's like the video has been heavily degraded by too much digitizing and compression.  I see it whether the TV is on a high def channel or a normal channel.  Whether it is through my FIOS box or through over the air TV.

2.  Some TV shows seem to encode their video in a format that kind of shows the same thing.  I've seen it on some game shows like jeopardy or wheel of fortune.  The video resolution seems okay, but the motion is very herky jerky.  Like when they show the contestants clapping, something just doesn't seem right.  Like frames are discarded and the motion is not very fluid.

In my opinion, while things like digital TV and high definition are some great technological advancements, sometimes the digitizing winds up making things look worse than the days of analog TV. And don't get me started on the whole thing with aspect ratios where nobody has any consistency on the size and shape of a screen.  You are sometimes forced to watch things with black bands, or with parts of the screen cut off.

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I have sen that as well and have written it off as the result of video ocmpresion. WHen the screen imae is sorta stable only small updates are required to adjust the image for the next frame but when the whole images changes rapidly the whole set of transform need to be updated. Hockey was cited as the worst case example in an article I read on vidoe compresion.

Ben

[RavensFan]

I just don't understand why "improvements" in technology are making things worse.  I wish they would just figure out and fix it.  I've seen the herky jerky motion with highlights on the news of all 4 major sports (baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.)

Here is one more thing I've come across.  Not often, but occasionally.  I'm curious if anyone else has heard this.  I've googled it, barely came up with anything, but some people have complained about somewhat similar things and related it to audio compression.  Watching the baseball game, the pitcher releases the ball, as it is coming into home plate, there is a rapid clicking sound that to me sounds kind of a like an old movie projector.  It stop right after the catcher catches the ball.  When I heard it in a game, I tend to hear it on most pitches (one nationally televised game earlier in the year between the O's and nationals it happened a lot.)  But most of the games I watch I don't hear it.  But when I do, I find it extremely annoying.

Sorry to hijack this thread with some off topic conversation.  But the discussion of the TV broadcast output brought these things to mind and I've been wanted to get answers.

[Jeffrey_Zola]

Radar gun near the crowd mic?

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@RavensFan wrote:

I just don't understand why "improvements" in technology are making things worse.  I wish they would just figure out and fix it.  I've seen the herky jerky motion with highlights on the news of all 4 major sports (baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.)

Here is one more thing I've come across.  Not often, but occasionally.  I'm curious if anyone else has heard this.  I've googled it, barely came up with anything, but some people have complained about somewhat similar things and related it to audio compression.  Watching the baseball game, the pitcher releases the ball, as it is coming into home plate, there is a rapid clicking sound that to me sounds kind of a like an old movie projector.  It stop right after the catcher catches the ball.  When I heard it in a game, I tend to hear it on most pitches (one nationally televised game earlier in the year between the O's and nationals it happened a lot.)  But most of the games I watch I don't hear it.  But when I do, I find it extremely annoying.

Sorry to hijack this thread with some off topic conversation.  But the discussion of the TV broadcast output brought these things to mind and I've been wanted to get answers.

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[pschmal2]

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@RavensFan wrote:

1.  A lot of times during the sports section of the local news, when they show highlights of different games, the video looks very herky jerky and really poor resolution.  It's like the video has been heavily degraded by too much digitizing and compression.  I see it whether the TV is on a high def channel or a normal channel.  Whether it is through my FIOS box or through over the air TV.

2.  Some TV shows seem to encode their video in a format that kind of shows the same thing.  I've seen it on some game shows like jeopardy or wheel of fortune.  The video resolution seems okay, but the motion is very herky jerky.  Like when they show the contestants clapping, something just doesn't seem right.  Like frames are discarded and the motion is not very fluid.

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I haven't been in the TV area since before the HD revolution but I can try some answers:

1. This is just because of the nature of distribution to many local affiliates. Often the game highlights need to be queued up only minutes after they end, and many affiliates need to access the video. The video gets ultra compressed to facilitate this. In the old days you would see degradation because the footage would be recorded using VHS tapes that had been used a bunch of times.

2. I think this is because the cameras have improved so much that you don't get the motion blur that you used to because the aperture can remain open. Without the bluring sometimes you can notice that the frame rate is not enough. Another theory would be that since HD video feeds are a ton of data, you just get relays binding up for a split second in the chain of Studio -> Network control -> cable companies -> you. It is a lot of steps to stream that data through.

The other things like weird black bars, or funky aspect ratios - this is just down to technical competence of whatever team is producing. You also have different broadcast software suites that has problems perfectly converting the output of a different package in a different location. This is why you see these problems more in smaller affiliates with less money (Small teams, old software, old tech). A lot of techs will just be following a recipe list to bring a video to broadcast instead of knowing the technology, which makes it difficult to respond to changes.

[Jeffrey_Zola]

Thought more about your "clicking" question, RF. Does anyone know whether Questec (the umpire "Big Brother" system or whatever gives pitch location & break data to the MLB.com or ESPN.com Game-whatever's that show pitch speed, break, trajectory, etc.? Do they use shutters on cameras that may be positioned near the microphone that picks up the "pop" of the bal linto the catcher's mitt?

 

@Jeffrey_Zola wrote:

Radar gun near the crowd mic?

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@RavensFan wrote:

I just don't understand why "improvements" in technology are making things worse.  I wish they would just figure out and fix it.  I've seen the herky jerky motion with highlights on the news of all 4 major sports (baseball, football, basketball, and hockey.)

Here is one more thing I've come across.  Not often, but occasionally.  I'm curious if anyone else has heard this.  I've googled it, barely came up with anything, but some people have complained about somewhat similar things and related it to audio compression.  Watching the baseball game, the pitcher releases the ball, as it is coming into home plate, there is a rapid clicking sound that to me sounds kind of a like an old movie projector.  It stop right after the catcher catches the ball.  When I heard it in a game, I tend to hear it on most pitches (one nationally televised game earlier in the year between the O's and nationals it happened a lot.)  But most of the games I watch I don't hear it.  But when I do, I find it extremely annoying.

Sorry to hijack this thread with some off topic conversation.  But the discussion of the TV broadcast output brought these things to mind and I've been wanted to get answers.

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[RavensFan]

I thought about the radar gun possibility.  But I just couldn't think of what about a radar gun would generate noise.

The pitch tracker idea could very well be a possibility.  I just have no idea how that works, and whether it would have any kind of shutter system that could be picked up by a microphone.  It just seems like the microphone would have to be extremely close the mechanism to be picked up as loud as it seems to be.