is this a job for labview ?

[jeekhoorn]

Someone wants me to write an application in D e l p h i 5 but I fear i might
be reinventing the wheel. So I wonder if Labview can do the next :

Here comes the proposal from F i n l a n d :
> Measurement of temperature profiles in s a n d c a s t i n g.
> The application will include thermocouples, signal conditioning,
> plug-in DAQ Board and software. Your task is to write
> the software(Driver software and application software).

> Some suggested (perhaps) features of the data
> acquisition will be the following:
> **Data acquisition attached to Windows 95/NT computers.
> **Box: 16sc/8di 14bit analog inputs, 8 analog outputs, and 8 digital I/O
> lines
> **Signal conditioning amplifier on each input
> **Connection to thermocouple type:
> Thermocouple Range Accaracy
> R -50C to 70C +- 3.5C
> 70C to 1768C +- 2.0C
> K -200C to -50C +- 0.8C
> -50C to 1360C +- 0.6C
> The table excludes thermocouple device error; yet includes
> cold junction compensation, voltage measurement and
> linearization errors.
> **166Ks/sec throughput to Ram or to Disk.
> **Box powered by 32bit DSP PCl or PC-Card card in 95/NT computer.
>
> The above are just suggestions. You can design the application
> according to your preference.
>
> So, the Data Acqusition selection guide for the project
> will be as follows:
>
> Step1:
> ------
> Identifying I/O signal types viz.; temperature.
>
> Step2:
> ------
> Signal conditioning: Choose a signal conditioning method.
>
> Step3:
> -----
> Data acquisition: Select the appropriate data acqusition I/O device.
>
> Step4:
> -----
> Cables and accessories: Choose the appropriate cables for the board and
> signal conditioning.
>
> Step5:
> -----
> Software: Select the software (Driver software and application software)
>
> programming method - D E L P H I 5.
>
>
> Other hints.
> -----------
> Temperature meter features:
> +- 0.42C R- and K-type thermocouple accuracy.
> Cold-junction compensation, autzero.
> open-thermocouple detection, ground-referencing.
> 24-bit resolution voltage measurement.
> Up to 8 analog inputs; up to 8 digital I/O lines.
> +-15 volt input range.
> Multiplatform - Compact PCl, PXl, PCl etc.

My attention at a first reading of the proposal went to :
Box 16sc/8di : 16sc what's this ?
166Ks/sec throughput to Ram or to Disk : Labview can do this ?
Compact PCl vs. PCl : compact PCI ?
PXl : PXI from Nat.Instr. I suppose ?
14bit analog inputs, 24-bit resolution voltage measurement : really needed
for temperatures with 0.6C finest accuracy ?

J e f C h a r l i e r

[markwysong]

LabVIEW can certainly do these things. I think the 16 sc is a typo; it should be 16se/8di for 16 single-ended/ 8 differential. LabVIEW can do 166Ks/S throughput rate to disk or RAM, depending on the computer and the acquisition board used.

The PXI platform that National Instruments has developed is a ruggedized compact PCI platform with 1 additional bus for triggering signals. It will accept any compact PCI hardware, however. I can't imagine needing 24 bit resolution for TCs, but it is possible if really needed.

There are a few things to be considered, though. NI's boards are usually +/-10 V inputs, so you'll have to get a HV terminal block to get +/-15V. As far as 24 bit resolution for the TCs, what range is that? NI's boards are 12 and 16-bit, but th
eir range can be set as low as +/- 50 mV to get better resolution.

Is that 166Ks/S for ALL inputs, analog, TCs, and digital? And is that continuous, or just for a specified amount of time?

All of these issues can be overcome. LabVIEW with NI hardware could do all these things.

Mark

[jeekhoorn]

"markwysong" wrote in message
news:506500000005000000722C0000-991728092000@quiq.com...

> LabVIEW can certainly do these things. I think the 16 sc is a typo;
> it should be 16se/8di for 16 single-ended/ 8 differential. LabVIEW
> can do 166Ks/S throughput rate to disk or RAM, depending on the
> computer and the acquisition board used.

> The PXI platform that National Instruments has developed is a
> ruggedized compact PCI platform with 1 additional bus for triggering
> signals. It will accept any compact PCI hardware, however. I can't
> imagine needing 24 bit resolution for TCs, but it is possible if
> really needed.

> There are a few things to be considered, though. NI's boards are
> usually +/-10 V inputs, so you'll have to get a HV terminal
block to
> get +/-15V. As far as 24 bit resolution for the TCs, what range is
> that? NI's boards are 12 and 16-bit, but their range can be set as
> low as +/- 50 mV to get better resolution.

> Is that 166Ks/S for ALL inputs, analog, TCs, and digital? And is that
> continuous, or just for a specified amount of time?
Also a question i have to ask : I think 8 measurements for some minutes.

> All of these issues can be overcome. LabVIEW with NI hardware could
> do all these things.
> Mark

I will ask the man if he has considered using Labview. If he insists I do
the job with Delphi5, I have to propose some hardware. I think he will put
the PC near a test-table where they make little metal profiles in sand
cavings. Easy connections on an external box and so on .. but that's for
later.

Thanks,
Jef

[Scott Seidman]

> My attention at a first reading of the proposal went to :
> Box 16sc/8di : 16sc what's this ?
> 166Ks/sec throughput to Ram or to Disk : Labview can do this ?
> Compact PCl vs. PCl : compact PCI ?
> PXl : PXI from Nat.Instr. I suppose ?
> 14bit analog inputs, 24-bit resolution voltage measurement : really needed
> for temperatures with 0.6C finest accuracy ?
>
> J e f C h a r l i e r
>
>

I don't know if your hardware is capable of 166ks/sec. I'm also not clear
on whether that figure is a description of the top rate achievable by the
hardware they have, or whether it is a requirement for what they want to
achieve.

One thing I can promise you-- a standard thermocouple won't be able to track
temperature changes at 80 KHz (not to mention that your physical syste
m
probably won't undergo these kinds of fluctuations), thus if 166Ks/sec is a
requirement, it is a needless requirement.

As for whether or not you'll be reinventing the wheel, of course you are.
But, they really seem to want you to do the job in Delphi, otherwise they
wouldn't mention it. Perhaps you should find out if the requirement is
simply because they don't want to invest in yet another development
environment. Labview is great, but expensive.

Scott

[jeekhoorn]

"Scott Seidman" wrote in message
news:9fjncv$4hub4$1@ID-44929.news.dfncis.de...
>
> > My attention at a first reading of the proposal went to :
> > Box 16sc/8di : 16sc what's this ?
> > 166Ks/sec throughput to Ram or to Disk : Labview can do this ?
> > Compact PCl vs. PCl : compact PCI ?
> > PXl : PXI from Nat.Instr. I suppose ?
> > 14bit analog inputs, 24-bit resolution voltage measurement : really
needed
> > for temperatures with 0.6C finest accuracy ?
> >
> > J e f C h a r l i e r

> I don't know if your hardware is capable of 166ks/sec. I'm also not clear
> on whether that figure is a description of the top rate achievable by the
> hardware they have, or whether it is a requirement for what they want to
> achieve.
Might be but
the hardware.

> One thing I can promise you-- a standard thermocouple won't be able to
track
> temperature changes at 80 KHz (not to mention that your physical system
> probably won't undergo these kinds of fluctuations), thus if 166Ks/sec is
a
> requirement, it is a needless requirement.
It's for an university, so they might have experimental new temperature
sensors.

> As for whether or not you'll be reinventing the wheel, of course you are.
> But, they really seem to want you to do the job in Delphi, otherwise they
> wouldn't mention it. Perhaps you should find out if the requirement is
> simply because they don't want to invest in yet another development
> environment. Labview is great, but expensive.
Didn't knew Labview was so expensive. In Delphi, I can use many 3-party
components, and I can make the application as fast as the hardware can bare
( i think ). But once they ask to display trends, to make custom logs and
reports, then I will be reeinventing the wheel..

Jef

[Kamran S.]

Pricing depends on what development system you need. For details on pricing: http://sine.ni.com/apps/we/nioc.vp?lang=US&pc=form&cid=1382

Regards,
Kamran - NI

[Labviewguru]

LabVIEW is definitely the way to go.

NI has a new 24 bit card that should handle this, but it doesn't sound like you need it. Just use their Thermocouple card and the proper blocks and you are on your way. Channel specific scaling should handle things as far as hardware.

As for programming. How easy are scaling operations using these thermocouples in Delphi 5 (what IS delphi 5?). I know that LabVIEW has these built in. LabVIEW really is the answer for this problem because of the platform, the hardware, and because of the scalability of the NI hardware and LabVIEW.

You will spend far less time with LabVIEW than you would with Delphi.

Good luck