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Many MS/UB 11 bogus netlist errors are occuring

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Hi,

 

I'm getting all kinds of bogus netlist errors in UB11.

 

It's not the problem in here:

http://forums.ni.com/ni/attachments/ni/370/7315/1/Missing%20Pin%20from%20Net%20error.doc

 

It's claiming missing pins that don't even exist on the footprints  i.e. pin 11 on a 10 pin footprint, or missing pins that are actually there.  It seems to think some pins shouuld be connected to two different nets.

 

What's going on?  DRC error report attached.

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Hi David,

 

I've seen similar messages when I copy/cut/paste components from one design to another. Ultiboard only copies components, not connectivity (i.e. netlist information), so these errors are generated.

 

I'm not sure if this is the cause of your problem though.

Message Edited by yyao on 05-13-2010 03:17 PM
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Yi
Software Developer
National Instruments - Electronics Workbench Group
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I did copy and paste a small section from another design and then deleted it after cloning.  Maybe that's left some artifacts in UB???

 

If so why doesn't importing the correct netlist again clean it up?

 

David B

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Nets are not copied when copying and pasting in Ultiboard because the action is not well defined and causes confusion. If you think about it, when you select objects in Ultiboard, they are usually components, you can select traces, but you cannot select nets. If Ultiboard were to copy nets, would you expect it to copy only nets internal to the selection? For example, if you were copying and pasting an active filter, you would expect that the pasted circuit contained the correct connections that made up the filter. What about nets connecting your selection to the outside? For example, you where copying and pasting digital components, you would expect their power pins to connect to the board power rails. How would you control exactly how your pasted selection is going to be wired up if you wanted a combination of the above behaviour? What should the new net names be? These are really tricky questions to answer because everyone has different opinions and what behaviour you want depends on what you want to do.

 

Instead copying and pasting in Ultiboard, it is much more convenient to do this in Multisim. It is an even better design strategy to place these components in subcircuits and copy and paste subcircuits. When you are ready, forward annotate to Ultiboard. This is the recommended work flow. When you want to duplicate your placement and route, use Design>>Group Replica Place and Design>>Copy Route. It is a much more elegant solution to your problem.

 

Hope that helped.

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Yi
Software Developer
National Instruments - Electronics Workbench Group
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Sounds like a lot more work to replicate a switching regulator layout that way.  I suppose I could have just copied and pasted the traces and vias and not the parts, but it was easier to replicate the placement if the parts were there also.

 

Even if what you say is a more elegant way, it's still a bug that bogus netlist debris is not cleared out when I re-import the netlist.

 

I did find out that if I edit the netlist in UB to remove the errors, then when I re-import the netlist from MS again the deleted errors stay away.  Sounds like at least there is a workaround.  Too bad there are 200 such errors I need to fix.

 

How can I get a clean netlist import to occur?  Maybe transfer to UB as a completely new design, then delete all parts and paste my existing work from the old design is again?  What a pain.

 

David B

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So I finally cleared almost everything up by deleting the bogus connections in the UB netlist editor and then doing another forward annotate.

 

Then only thing left is it thinks there should be a U13 in the design, but there is none.  I can place a device and call it U13 and then it's happy.  If I do an FA it removes it and then it complains it's missing again.

 

I don't know how to fix this.

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I thought I had it all fixed but I have discovered that UB still thinks there are connections to pins that should actually be NC's.  I found two just by dumb luck since the DRC didn't show them.  Now I'm not sure how to have confidence there are no unwanted connections in my design file.

 

If anyone from NI is watching please advise since I need to release this design this weekend.

 

Thanks.

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Hi David,

 

I don't know what is the recommended solution here, but I would try the following:

  • Look through the list of components in the netlist editor (Tools>>Netlist Editor). This is an exhaustive search and would take a really long time if you have a large design.
  • If you know the name of the offending nets and components, export the netlist to a file (Transfer>>Back annotate to Multisim>>Back annotate to file), open it in your favourite text editor and search for the offending items.

 

I'm going to ask someone from support to look at this.

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Yi
Software Developer
National Instruments - Electronics Workbench Group
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Solution
Accepted by topic author dbur

  • Look through the list of components in the netlist editor (Tools>>Netlist Editor). This is an exhaustive search and would take a really long time if you have a large design.
  • If you know the name of the offending nets and components, export the netlist to a file (Transfer>>Back annotate to Multisim>>Back annotate to file), open it in your favourite text editor and search for the offending items.

The first  suggestion would work, though a real pain as mentioned.

The second does not because the part in question does not show up in the  exported  BA file.

 

Here's the best fix (aside from NI fixing the bug):

  • Place a part with many pins and label it 'U13', or whatever the refdes is.
  • examine the pins and see which one shows a connection in the ratsnet.
  • look at the net name
  • open the netlist editor and go to that net and delete the offending pin.

Worked great.   If the part you place does not have enough pins for one of them to be the pin number at fault you won't see the bad connection.
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