PXI-8196 Controller unable to boot from external HDD controller

[Al_at_DDL]

I have a NI PXI-8196 embedded controller installed in a PXI-1042 chassis.  The system works fine with the hard drive installed on the controller itself.  However, for security reasons, we need to install the hard drive on a separate controller card, as it contains classified data and must be locked up.  We have EKF CE2 Harmony C-PCI controller cards for this purpose, which we have used successfully with the older generations of NI controllers (e.g., 8175, 8176, 8187).  We are using Windows XP, and according to EKF, suitable drivers for the ATA controller on their card are native within Windows XP.

When the hard drive is installed on the EKF card and installed in the system, it shows up in the BIOS and can be set in the boot order as the number one boot device.  The system will try to boot from it, but as soon as Windows starts and it gets to that initial "DOS-type" bar at the bottom of the screen (before the Windows XP splash screen), the machine auto-reboots itself.  This cycle repeats indefinitely and the system will not boot.  Additionally, whenever the EKF card is installed, the controller cannot boot from an external USB CD-ROM or floppy, even though they show up in the list of devices in the BIOS boot order and I select them as the number one device.  Even if I specifically exclude the EKF card from the boot order and put a bootable CD in the USB CD drive, it will just say "Operating System not Found" and stop. (In this case, the auto-rebooting stops, as it isn't even trying to boot from the hard drive.)  If I remove the hard drive card, the system can boot from CD or floppy again, even if they are not number one in the boot order.

The controller has BIOS version 1.1.  I found a version 1.20 on NI's site, but per the readme file for that BIOS it corrects a problem with the inability to detect a monitor if the system was ever booted without a monitor attached.  Additionally, the readme lists as an "unresolved issue" with version 1.20 that some SCSI drives cause the controller to boot slowly.  Since this external hard drive card is seen like a SCSI card, I am wondering if there is some BIOS issue that is preventing me from using this card with the 8196 controller.  Is there another version of the BIOS that coorects the "unresolved issue" with version 1.20?

I have tried other known-good EKF cards, and the same problem exists.  As these cards work fine with the older NI controllers, it seems that there is an incompatibility between the controller card and the 8196.  Is there a solution for this?  Has anyone used these controllers with a hard drive that is not mounted on the controller itself, or knows what I may be doing wrong?  Is there another known-compatible C-PCI/PXI ATA controller for the 8196?

Thanks,

Al Robertson

DDL OMNI engineering

[Berto]

Hi Al,

Sorry for the late response here.  We're wondering a bit about the details of your Windows XP Installation process here.  Could you go over how you're doing that?  Are you able to get into the "high-color" modes with no problem when installing it there?

In the meantime, it wouldn't hurt to try the BIOS update, but as you are hinting, it probably won't fix the problem.

Regards,
mike

[Al_at_DDL]

We installed Windows XP by putting the hard drive in another PC and using Norton Ghost to restore it from an image we had on the network.  This image was of the original installation that came on the controller from NI.

Al

[Berto]

Hmm... would that image happen to be made with an 8176 controller?

Seems like XP doesn't know where it is.  I'd try installing XP to that drive with it installed via the EKF module. One way to do this--though we're not sure it works from our recovery CD--is to remove the internal HDD, put the drive via the carrier in the computer and boot from the Recovery CD. It may be able to detect the drive in the carrier and install to it, but no guarantees.

The other option is to put the drive in the carrier and install from a retail XP cd that will give them more options.

Thanks,
mike

[Al_at_DDL]

I am not sure how the image was made, as that was done by somebody that no longer works here.  I think it was done in a standard PC using one of those adapters that lets you put a laptop HDD into a standard IDE slot.

The problem with installing the hard drive into the carrier and installing Windows XP from an XP CD is that the 8196 controller will not boot from any USB device whenever the HDD carrier is installed.  It still sees the USB CD-ROM drive, and I can set it as the number one priority in the boot order in the BIOS, but it won't boot from it unless I remove the hard drive carrier.  Then it sees the XP CD in the drive and boots right up from it. 

Al

[Berto]

Hey Al,

I'm thinking at this point we need to abandon that image and get a new image going for the 8196.  Here's what we did with the hardware situation you have:

Setup:
EKF and USB-CDRom connected to PXI-8196

1.  Go into the BIOS, and to the boot menu, and disable the EKF device (should mention SCSI device) as a boot-device.  To do this, I believe you push shift-1 (i'm working from home right now, so I could be mistaken on this one).

2.  Now go into the XP Installation by having the CD-Rom be the boot device  (note that just because we disable the EKF drive as a boot device doesn't mean that we're disabling the device itself -- it will detect as it did here)

3.  Begin the preliminary Windows XP Installation, pointing it to the EKF drive to install to (and put the Master Boot Record on)

4.  Soon XP CD will want to reboot and do all of its installation by booting from the destination drive.  At this point, reboot, and disable the CDROM as a boot device and enable the EKF drive this time

5.  Continue forth with the installation after booting from the new drive.

Things should work, they did here.  I'd recommend getting whatever updates you need and ghosting this installation once you get it going.

mike

[Adam_U]

One additional point, you can use the recovery CD included with the 8190 to install XP onto the EKF drive.

[Al_at_DDL]

I already tried doing what you suggested, but even if I disable the EKF as a boot device the 8196 controller will still not boot from the CD-ROM.  I have to physically remove the EKF from the system before it will boot from USB.  It just says "operating system not found".  The BIOS boot list sees both the USB CD and sees the EKF as a SCSI device as you predicted.  I can select the USB CD as the number one boot device and put the EKF in the list of devices to specifically exclude from the boot order but it will still not boot from the CD until I physically remove the EKF.  There appears to be something about the 8196 BIOS that doesn't work correctly with the EKF installed.

Al

[Berto]

Al, I've been very confused as to why this isn't working for you.  We've done it twice here fine.

The steps I outlined above work, but I did forget to tell you that the VERY first step should be to completely disable the PXI HDD (choose NONE instead of AUTO in the BIOS).

So, to outline the steps:

1.  Disable the PXI HDD - the master should detect the type NONE
2.  Disable the EKF as a boot device in the Boot menu.  Shift-1 to disable it.
3.  Enable the USB-CDRom as the boot device.  Move it up to the top of the list too if possible.
4.  Boot and install the recovery CD from the USB CDRom.  This seems to be where you're getting hung up, but let me know.  It should be the DOS-based menu to get things going.
5.  After you're asked to reboot, shut down and disable USB CD-Rom as a boot device and make the EKF #1 boot device and enable it.
6.  continue on with installation..

If this isn't working, I'd like you to outline for us every step you see, where exactly you're getting hung up, and what other workarounds you've tried.  When disabling the EKF, we have no problem whatsoever with the USB CD.

mike

[rlg50]

Thanks! This helped very much. I can't believe the hdd has to be disabled before we can boot to the ext. cdrom. But it works.