Bug thread discussion

[altenbach]

I was suggesting to start a new bug thread for each month to keep things better organized. tst was arguing that it rather should be based on thread lenght.

Let's discuss the advantages and disadvantages here in order not to pollute the bug thread itself. (True, I had two bugs in my first post, but tst had none, so the average is still on target ;))

Here's my position:

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The current format is unsatisfactory, because so far none of the weekly bug threads had anything to do with "weekly". They had random duration and were not aligned on week boundaries anyway.

We need to strike a balance between many short threads scattered all over and ultra long threads that are hard to follow.

I think a monthly format with clear threading is fine, even if there might be months without any bugs (probably not ;)) and months with many.

I suggest to open a new thread every month, at which time the old thread will get a last post with a link to the new thread. The first post in the new monthly thread will contain the rules and a link the the previous thread.

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Any suggestions are welcome. Here's the place to voice your opinion! 🙂

[tst]

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@altenbach wrote:
I had two bugs in my first post, but tst had none, so the average is still on target 😉

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Did you write a VI to calculate that? I hope it didn't have any bugs.

I think what we really need is a real bug system, but that's something that can't be accessed by inexperienced users, and I doubt NI will give access to its database.

As another alternative, I suggest (again) a bug board. This obviously has some disadvantages of its own - inexeperienced users will repost old bugs, people might post non-bugs, people could post bugs to other boards and probably a few others.

Are there any thoughts on that - is there a way to have a useful bug board on NI's site?

[Jim_Kring]

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@tst wrote:

I think what we really need is a real bug system, but that's something that can't be accessed by inexperienced users, and I doubt NI will give access to its database.

As another alternative, I suggest (again) a bug board. This obviously has some disadvantages of its own - inexeperienced users will repost old bugs, people might post non-bugs, people could post bugs to other boards and probably a few others.

Are there any thoughts on that - is there a way to have a useful bug board on NI's site?

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I would love to have access to a LabVIEW bug tracker, so that I could report, monitor, and search LabVIEW bugs.  However, I don't see this happening from NI any time soon.  And, the problem with using a forum for doing this, in general, is that a bug tracker contains a whole lot of data and a collection of forum threads is not an efficient way of managing that data -- you need a database.  And, it would require moderator privilages in order to edit thread postings (to update bug status), and NI will probably not give moderator level access to non-NI persons.  Perhaps someone could set up a LabVIEW bugzilla site that is community driven.  Maybe LAVA could do this, but I know that the staff there is already over worked and under paid.  BTW, do you know that the LAVA Forums has a LabVIEW Bug List Forum?

[becktho]

Hi

I think altenbachs idea is not bad. It would be good to have a simple way to get an overview of bugs, although searching in a database-system would be much better.

The main problem I see, is the inexperienced user who is not used to the forums (I don't know if I'm one of those too ;)). I agree with tst that they may post the same bug ever and ever again - as you see in the normal LabVIEW board. How many new users ask almost the same question? But that's another story.

If something like this bug-threads is set up, I'd find it helpful if they are in separate board and I agree with altenbach, that a duration of a month would be ok.

[Ben]

Hi all,

Now that we have had the opertunity to test drive a bug list it seems that Altenbach's and tst's suggestions re: month and 25 posting amount to about the same thing.

The but postings todate have been very good and have exceeded my intial expextations.

1) They get the word out. Previously bugs would get posted and confirmed/denighed so quickly only the parties involved knew about them.

2) The publicity has brought more "eyes" to the table to discuss work-arounds and the nature of the beasts.

3) The "bug List" has captured the attention of support and the bugs we have found are getting reported.

For the near term I feel we should contiue as we have. For the long term the DB sounds like a excellent goal. In an effort to bring this about, I will push that all "Enthusiast"s and Champions be granted moderator privlidges. I have hasked for this and was told in time this was part of the plan. In "exchange time" that could be a year away at the earliest. So I just have to send a "nagging" memo once a week between now and then.

And on a similar note:

The "interesting threads" topic is also performing well. If you think about it, they the conterparts of each other. One looks at LV's short-comings, the other highlights its strong points.

Ben

Message Edited by Ben on 07-05-2005 06:28 AM

[tst]

I know the LAVA bug forum, but the main problem with that is the same problem that we come up against with everything in the LAVA forums. LAVA has a much smaller user community. Admittedly, most of that community is light years ahead of many people here when it comes to using LV, but for things like bugs you often need more users, because that way you run into the less common bugs. What would probably really be good was if NI let us have read access to some version of their bug DB and have a moderator follow our bug threads. The thing is that NI would probably not want to make any part of their DB public, and that's their right.

That bugzilla idea sounds interesting, but I doubt it will fly, due to lack of parents.

[altenbach]

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@Ben wrote:

For the near term I feel we should contiue as we have. For the long term the DB sounds like a excellent goal. In an effort to bring this about, I will push that all "Enthusiast"s and Champions be granted moderator privlidges. I have hasked for this and was told in time this was part of the plan.

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Ben, I don't like that idea at all and I am not sure how it relates to the bug topic. Participating in a forum and moderating a forum are two very different things, they should be totally independend. (This is like asking for a free pilot's license after a certain amount of frequent flyer miles ;))

I don't mind a few perks as a function of participation. Ideas would be e.g. a mug or t-shirt for certain milestones, a private social forum for "active" and above, taller limits on allowed post lenght (I don't know if there even is a limit), extra fields in the profile, and so on.

Moderator priviledges should only be granted after a detailed internal election and review process. I don't know what the workload is for the current moderators, but it does not seem excessive. Participants are typically very well behaved here. 🙂

[Ben]

Can't argue those points Christian.

Maybe there is another way to get at what I wanted. This sorta dovetails with the Bug Threads and Interesting Posts.

I wanted the "frequnt flyers" to be able to catagorize the threads. The catagories could be along the lines of

serial

GPIB

DAQ

Grpahics

Peformance

Bugs

etc.

I wanted this because because of two reasons.

1) If you want to get maximum exposure to your question, LV is the best thread to post in.

2) The "average questioner" does not nessesarily know how to catagorize their Q and antisipated response.

I envisioned going through the Q's over my morning coffee and punching buttons to "nominate" the thread as one of the above catagories. When the Q catagorization is then seconded by another "frequent flyer" the Q would then add to the list of Q of that type.

Over time this would result in the BLOB of LV questions into more specialized themes allowing easier searches and theme driven studies for future participants in the exchange. Now that the Bug Threads and Interesting Threads have shown the usefullness, we have a preview of what I was trying to implement on a grander scale.

So, I agree that I should not be given the keys to the plane. I would like to help with sorting and stowing the cargo.

And BTW, the limit on posting is 5000 characters. I found this out with my "Ode to a State Diagram" posting.

Ben

Message Edited by Ben on 07-24-2005 09:24 AM

[shoneill]

Ben,

if the ability to shift around posts is geanted, it's imperative to do it in a way so that any links to the post won't be broken.....

Maybe NI should add an option to new(er) users to click (mandatory) on a specific box when posting in order to decide what topic they are posting on (Serial, memory management, files etc. and then route the post to the correct forum).  This option could be turned off by a more experienced user without any trouble......

Shane.

[becktho]

This idea sounds not bad - but I think there may be users who don't know what type of topic they are referring to.

Just an example: a professional programmer with lots of years experience runs into troubles using a serial port - he may be looking for drivers or other lower level information. A newbie with no experience (maybe a student) runs into the same problem - he may think labview makes something wrong.

Ok - I know it's not the best example, but I think there will be similar situations.

I'd say there should be a guy of NI, who may move messages to the correct board.

Thomas