06-02-2015 02:44 PM
I'm using a USB-6363 interface with two SCB-68 terminal boxes. Each box is connected using a 2-meter SHC68-68-EPM cable to the 6363.
I am using Port 0 to generate digital waveforms using an 8 MHz clock. The FIFO buffer appears to be able to handle the data rate, but the quality of the digital signals at the terminal boxes is an issue. Specifically there are overshoot, undershoot, ringing, and crosstalk between channels. This is causing false triggering on the device under test. See attached scope plot. The measurements were made directly at the terminal box without the DUT connected. The yellow trace is on P0.0, and the green trace is P0.3. The crosstalk is reduced on channels located on the other connector, but it is still there. I am using 20 digital outputs from the 6363, so I can only sepatarate certain groups of signals to each terminal box.
The device I am testing nominally runs at 1V Vdd, so I am using NXP NVT20xx series level shifters to bring the logic-high levels from 5V down to 1V. These level shifters clamp any high voltages to about Vdd + 0.25V, but anything lower gets passed through almost verbatim. This means that any extraneous signals centered around logic-low are problematic because it only takes a few 100 mV to cause false triggering on the DUT.
It is my suspicion that the 2m length of the cables is the main cause of my problems. I know that this same cable is available in 0.5m lengths. I have told my supervisor/professor that we may have to order shorter cables, but I want to see if it’s possible to mitigate the issues with additional circuitry before purchasing.
I have searched through knowledgebase articles and forum posts, but most of what I found concern matching impedances on devices designed for 50 ohm loads. It is my understanding that the 6363 is not designed for matched networks, but is there a recommended termination or filter circuit that can significantly reduce the unwanted anomalies? Ideally I’d like to avoid sacrificing rise/fall times too much. Also attenuation of the signals needs to be minimized since there are times that the Vdd will be at 3V, i.e. the logic-high input signals need to be at or above Vdd in order for the level shifters to work properly.
I have tried adding load resistance (min. 220 ohms to limit current to less than 24mA), and this significantly reduces the ringing. However, it might be problematic dealing with the ground return paths for that much current on 20 channels. I have also tried RC low-pass filtering, but sufficiently reducing the ringing leads to long rise/fall times.
If it turns out that ordering shorter cables is a better solution, will the 0.5m cables be short enough to reduce the anomalies sufficiently? Will I still need termination/filtering on each channel?
06-03-2015 04:31 PM
Hi dbnoni,
Have you tried slowing your sampling rate? 8 MHz is a fairly fast rate and if lowering your rate increases the quality of your signal, then it is likely that you aren't experiencing crosstalk. Also, what kind of measurement do you usually expect from port 3? We don't spec how the channels on our devices will behave when they are unwired. Have you tried measuring these signals with the DUT hooked u? Having that could possibly provide better impedance matching for your system.
Anytime you use longer cables, you are more suceptible to noise, so shortening your cable length would be a good solution to help reduce that. Dropping down to 0.5m is a significant drop that I believe would give a noticeable difference in your system.
Paul C
06-04-2015 04:16 PM
Thank you for your response.
Unfortunately I can't slow the frequency down much without affecting the operation of the DUT. The false triggering that is occurring is not a function of the frequency anyway. It is due to the amplitude of the ringing after the falling edge of the clock pulse.
The quality of the signals is slightly worse when the DUT is connected. The DUT test board is connected to the terminal boxes through several ribbon cables that are about 1 ft long. I can shorten them some, but the issue is the quality of the signals present at the terminal boxes.
The first scope shot below (scope_23.png) is measured at the DUT test board. The clock signal was slowed down to 2 MHz (4 MHz sample rate), but the ringing and crosstalk is still significant. Ch1 (yellow) is the 2 MHz clock signal (from P0.0). Ch2 (green) is output from P0.3, and it is being held low at the moment. There will be another control signal on this channel, but I wanted to show that the crosstalk from Ch1 is quite significant. Ch3 (blue) is the clock signal after passing through the level shifter. It does a good job of clamping the logic-high level down to about 1.2 V, but the ringing on the logic-low signal is passing straight through. The first positive peak of this ringing is about 525 mV, and it's enough to cause a false trigger on the DUT.
Ch4 (pink) is an output from the DUT (after another level shifter to bring it up to 5V). It is a decoded output from a 2-bit counter in the DUT. There should only be one pulse per every four clock cycles, and its width should be the same as the clock period (500ns in this case). The peak in the clock signal at +826ns caused the counter to advance. The false triggering occurs nearly every clock cycle, and it can be seen that the second pulse on Ch4 has occurred two cycles earlier than it should have.
To put this in perspective, I am attaching another plot (scope_8.png). This was an ealier test using two standalone function generators to create the signals on Ch1 and Ch2. There is very little ringing, and there is no visible crosstalk on Ch2 from Ch1. In this case Ch3 is the same signal as Ch4 was on the other plot. The pulses occur once every four clock cycles as desired. Ch4 on this plot is a signal generated by a circuit on the DUT test board. It is a delayed signal (~375ns) that depends on Ch2 and Ch3. It is also functioning as expected.
When I built the test board for the DUT, I had not used LabView and DAQmx hardware before. I had not considered how to handle the signal anomalies I am seeing. I can make this work if needed, but it in its current state it seems like I would have to add several signal conditioning parts (Schottky diodes, low-pass filters, and possibly Schmitt trigger buffers) to each output from the 6363.
It seems that I am trying to use this NI system a bit beyond the capabilities that it is designed for. The FIFO buffered outputs can only run up to 10 MHz under ideal conditions, and I'm trying generate precise and clean signals at 8 MHz sample rate. I appreciate the power and flexibility of LabView and DAQmx, and I will likely be using it more in the future for other projects. However for this particular project, I'm beginning to feel that I would be better off testing the DUT using an FPGA or a PSoC so that I have more precise control over high frequency signals.
I will discuss this further with my professor. If you think that the 0.5m cables would be a signicant improvement, then I will let him know. Even if they don't end up solving my issues, they may be useful for other projects.
06-05-2015 09:24 AM
Have you made sure the cables are properly seated and securely connected at both the DAQ card and SCB ends?
-AK2DM
06-05-2015 12:16 PM
Yes. I also tried a different set of 2m cables and another spare SCB-68. I even tried a PCI-6259 that is in a different computer.
06-08-2015 03:44 PM
I think that the shorter cables would improve your performance but I can't be sure whether or not all the issues you are seeing are a direct result of cable length, so it's hard to say that this one change would be a nice cureall. I would suggest taking a look at some of these more detailed specifications and talking with your professor to see if it will be worth the investment.
http://digital.ni.com/public.nsf/allkb/A8DFAE1DF7000D9486256F78006CDB08?OpenDocument
The SHC68-68-EPM is a well made cable that could be used for several different applications that would be a solid investment for future endeavors. However, for this case with your hardware and such a high clock rate, you may be better off using your alternate solution.
Paul C