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I agree with Mark in that every attempt should be made to spend the time to think out a good construct, rather than just jumping in and hacking. As I mentioned, developing some templates for the various vi styles, i.e. "Action Engines", "queued state machines", sub-vi with error handling, and having templated comments in the VI documentation portion can save time as well as make commenting your code easier. Hacking make get something up and running quickly, but if it acts flaky, or you need to add that feature in a month, it very well can take up any supposed time savings. Good programming style takes time to develop, but as you do it more often it will actually become faster, and you will find yourself doing some of the programming "house-keeping" like straightening wires, alining controls and indicators, etc., subconciously while in a "no-op loop" thinking about other aspects of your program. Of course NI has given us better and better tools in the form of "cleanup diagram", etc. (although I just did it on one of my vi's I'm working on, didn't like its idea of cleaned up!). But neatness does count, makes it a lot easier to understand the code, for you or someone else that has to follow you.

 

Good luck in your attempts at changing the culture at your workplace, and have fun "wiring"

 

 

Putnam
Certified LabVIEW Developer

Senior Test Engineer North Shore Technology, Inc.
Currently using LV 2012-LabVIEW 2018, RT8.5


LabVIEW Champion



Message 11 of 23
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Mark Yedinak wrote:

Well, I'll jump in a bit from the opposite point of view.


Opposite of what? I think the original query was on how the OP should approach the situation that he's in. He's a new member of a team. He sees a bunch of spaghetti code, but he doesn't want to overstep his rung for fear he may get pushed completely off the ladder. Sometimes real life forces into situations where you have no choice: get it done, or lose the project, or your job because you're seen as someone who doesn't get things done in time. I don't think anybody here was advocating hack code as being the norm. Just speaking for myself, I know that even in cases where I'm in a time crunch I will "hack" code only as a last resort for the very reasons you've stated. However, reality is what it is. Sometimes you don't have a choice, and there have been cases like this in the past for me, and there will be in the future. I still try to go back and "unhack" the code. 

 

I and others have noted that his best approach is to strike a balance: don't come off as appearing like a "know-it-all", but still provide suggestions on how to improve things little by little. As he start walking up the ladder he will have more clout, and be able to provide bigger and bigger suggestions. Now, it's quite possible that the group and/or his manager is looking for a messiah, but I wouldn't bet on it. Smiley Wink

Message 12 of 23
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smercurio_fc wrote:

Mark Yedinak wrote:

Well, I'll jump in a bit from the opposite point of view.


Opposite of what?


I mean the opposite of caving into the the practice of doing quick and dirty as opposed to taking a little time to think. Rarely have I seen someone loose their job or a project get lost entirely if it took a few days longer to complete. If we are talking months than yes I would agree. 

 

As for specific advice to the original poster I would agree that it would be best to lead by example. I wouldn't recommend that he go around telling folks their code sucks and it needs to be done differently. However if he truly wants to change the culture it is all the more important to do a supurb job on his code.  Yes, he must work within schedules but part of being a professional developer is to speak up when the schedule is unreasonable. If the push comes that the date is all important than something has to give. Generally that is either features or quality.



Mark Yedinak
Certified LabVIEW Architect
LabVIEW Champion

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald - Gordon Lightfoot
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Message 13 of 23
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Mark Yedinak wrote:

smercurio_fc wrote:

Mark Yedinak wrote:

Well, I'll jump in a bit from the opposite point of view.


Opposite of what?


I mean the opposite of caving into the the practice of doing quick and dirty as opposed to taking a little time to think.


I concur. But I don't think anybody here was advocating the practice. I certainly wasn't, and if it appeared that way, then I clearly did not put forth my thoughts properly into words. 

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Message 14 of 23
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I'd like to offer the idea that a quick "hack" can be a thing of beauty instead of something to be ashamed of.  It takes discipline, but if you'll get in the habit of using a template every time you begin to throw something together you'll have something that will serve your immediate need as well as something that can be extended if the quick-fix becomes the basis for the final product.  This is especially important because, when programming without time to do the up-front design work, you're bound to miss requirements (because they're often discovered on-the-fly).  It's nice to be able to add these features without resorting to the bad programming practices that we bash in other threads.

 

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, write clean code.  It costs less in the long run.

Message Edited by jcarmody on 10-20-2009 05:44 AM
Jim
You're entirely bonkers. But I'll tell you a secret. All the best people are. ~ Alice
For he does not know what will happen; So who can tell him when it will occur? Eccl. 8:7

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Message 15 of 23
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Well a few things I've learned so for.  Often people don't want to listen. Often you  don't have the funding to change things (especially if you are a contractor and technically someone else is paying you. All they want to pay for is mods. You screwed yourself in the first place, so now you have to deal with your house of cards), and apparently VI's that take up multiple monitors is the norm for big programs. Now I understand some large programs taking up a lot of space...but multiple  monitors sometimes 2 1/2  to 3?...This comment was made by the person that was given the new project I wanted( I think because he has a 2 at the end of his job title where as i only have a 1 (im the new guy):)). Correct me if I'm wrong and VI's can (maybe the better word is should, they obviously can haha) get this big, but I tend to get teh impression that they shouldn't. I have a long road to pave ahead of me. Anyone hiring? lol
Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 10-21-2009 05:37 PM
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Message 16 of 23
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for(imstuck) wrote:
Well a few things I've learned so for.  Often people don't want to listen. Often you  don't have the funding to change things (especially if you are a contractor and technically someone else is paying you. All they want to pay for is mods. You screwed yourself in the first place, so now you have to deal with your house of cards), and apparently VI's that take up multiple monitors is the norm for big programs. Now I understand some large programs taking up a lot of space...but multiple  monitors sometimes 2 1/2  to 3?...This comment was made by the person that was given the new project I wanted( I think because he has a 2 at the end of his job title where as i only have a 1 (im the new guy):)). Correct me if I'm wrong and VI's can (maybe the better word is should, they obviously can haha) get this big, but I tend to get teh impression that they shouldn't. I have a long road to pave ahead of me. Anyone hiring? lol
Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 10-21-2009 05:37 PM

That post was clearly out of frustration haha.  But, I'm going to keep chipping away  and go to some development meetings for this new project. Apparently I may still get to work on it and hopefully  that will allow me some input(This is a good way of getting your word in, making an impression, even when you are being overlooked). Another thing I have learned is try to be as efficient as possible. I think I already  turned some heads coding something up in half the time they expected it to take. Time is money and saving it makes people happy!

Message 17 of 23
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for(imstuck) wrote:
Well a few things I've learned so for.  Often people don't want to listen. Often you  don't have the funding to change things (especially if you are a contractor and technically someone else is paying you. All they want to pay for is mods. You screwed yourself in the first place, so now you have to deal with your house of cards), and apparently VI's that take up multiple monitors is the norm for big programs. Now I understand some large programs taking up a lot of space...but multiple  monitors sometimes 2 1/2  to 3?...This comment was made by the person that was given the new project I wanted( I think because he has a 2 at the end of his job title where as i only have a 1 (im the new guy):)). Correct me if I'm wrong and VI's can (maybe the better word is should, they obviously can haha) get this big, but I tend to get teh impression that they shouldn't. I have a long road to pave ahead of me. Anyone hiring? lol
Message Edited by for(imstuck) on 10-21-2009 05:37 PM

The statement that large applications normally use/require multiple montiors is total crap. Bad program architectures require multiple monitiors. I work on several large applications and not one of them has used or required multiple monitors to display a block diagram. Granted over time I have changed the orginal requirement for a block diagram to fit into a single 1024x780 screen to ustilize large monitors and we now use 1600x1200 as our size. Even then, generally the only block diagram that requires that much real estate is the the top level VI that is handling the UI events and the the main state machine. If these can be separated into subVIs they are but sometimes they need to be on a single block diagram.



Mark Yedinak
Certified LabVIEW Architect
LabVIEW Champion

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald - Gordon Lightfoot
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for(imstuck), can we get a New Year's update on how things are going with you?
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for(imstuck), can we get a Memorial Day update on how things are going with you?
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