Database Connectivity Toolkit does not even load in labview 8.5

[billings11]

When you do a clean install of labview 8.5 on a computer and try to load an app using the database connectivity toolkit, you get this error:

This comes up for multiple vi's in the database connectivity toolkit.  NI is still shipping labview 5.1 toolkit vi's with the 8.5 release. 

[JeffBoettcher]

This toolkit is useable in 8.5, but unfortunately some of the old compatibility VIs that ship with it are in fact saved in 5.1, and therefore will not load in LabVIEW 8.5.  This could cause problems for customers upgrading from an older version of the toolkit / LabVIEW, sorry for the inconvenience.  This was reported to R&D (4D9H6IB7) for further investigation, and more info can be found here http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/6449.

[billings11]

I see.  Looking at the known issues in 8.5 I decided to just go to 8.2.1 and wait for 8.5.1 to come out anyway.  I sort of figure there would be problems with the 0 level release.

[billings11]

What's even more disturbing by the way is that I reported bugs in the database toolkit with saving variants dating back to 8.0.  And even through all the bugs, all the sales reps assuring me that NI would be sure to take a look at the problems... Even though I complained that almost all my apps broke after 8.0 because the database toolkit won't save variants anymore...

This proves that not only has NI not attempted to fix the variant bugs, they haven't even OPENED the database toolkit internally since 7.1.  Its not like that one bug slipped through the testing.  In fact it proves that NI not only does inadequate compatibility testing of toolkits, but they actually do ZERO compatibility testing of toolkits.  Wow... zero compatibility testing whatsoever.

[Neil.Pate]

billings11,

I have been following your continual problems with labview upgrades, its like a weekly soap opera!

have you ever had a smooth upgrade???

[billings11]

6.0 to 6.1 was easy!  6.1 to 7.1 wasn't even that bad either.  Just lately its been really bad.

Message Edited by billings11 on 10-18-2007 02:39 PM

[Napoleon Dynamite]

b11,

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Looking at the known issues in 8.5 I decided to just go to 8.2.1 and wait for 8.5.1 to come out anyway.  I sort of figure there would be problems with the 0 level release.

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All sofware products have bugs.  LabVIEW is an innovative programming language and environment - of course its going to have some bugs.  The only difference now is that NI is doing a better job publicizing the more impactful bugs to help us out (hence, "4D9H6IB7 — Database Connectivity Toolset SQL VIs Will Not Load In LabVIEW 8.5").  And most of us developers are willing to live with those bugs because of the outweighing benefits of the language.  Not to mention the fact that NI is good at listening and reacting to customer feedback.

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I reported bugs in the database toolkit with saving variants dating back to 8.0

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I'm pretty sure that the database toolkit has not revved in several years.  According to the LabVIEW Module and Toolkit Compatibility Information page, it looks like version 1.0.1 is still the latest version, which was released back in the LV 6.x days (I think).  Its hard to fix bugs when you don't release a new version.  That being said, let's hope they release a new version soon.  My NI contacts say that this is a good possibility (I don't have any timelines, though).

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This proves that not only has NI not attempted to fix the variant bugs, they haven't even OPENED the database toolkit internally since 7.1.  Its not like that one bug slipped through the testing.  In fact it proves that NI not only does inadequate compatibility testing of toolkits, but they actually do ZERO compatibility testing of toolkits.  Wow... zero compatibility testing whatsoever.

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C'mon.  You don't actually believe that do you?  Assuming you develop and distribute software, do you ever have bugs in your code?  Do you ever distribute knowing you have certain bugs?  Do you ever discover bugs after distribution?  Now multiply the size of your code by.... I don't know... a lot?  It just seems silly for you to draw these extreme conclusions.  But, to each his own, right?

Be happy, its almost the weekend.

[billings11]

Don't lecture me about all software having bugs.  NI is obviously imploding under its own weight.  Its one thing to have a couple of bugs here and there, but NI needs to maintain and follow a release process that includes significant beta testing and a careful review process.  If NI expects labview to be used in production-critical areas across more and more industries, they need to work much much harder on quality control.

The database connectivity toolkit broke when the release labview 8.0.  This broke every application I had.  Sales reps assured me they would fix the problem.  Applications engineers assured me they had entered the bug into teh system and that it would be fixed. 

You can't even OPEN the database toolkit in labview 8.5.  So no, its pretty obvious no one at NI ever even opened it to check its functionality with either 8.0, 8.2, or 8.5.  They would have seen this problem!  You can't even load the toolkit because the vi's are verison 5.1!  If my software had this kind of quality I would not only be a very poor engineer, but I would also be ashamed of myself.  I would be embarrassed.  If you software is like that, then you should be ashamed of yourself too.

Your argument, "all software has bugs" is basically saying I should be passive and accepting of whatever NI gives me for my $4000 a year.  I am demanding better quality control.  Are you suggesting there is no point in this demand, and to just accept the fact that all my applications will break each labview release?  And for the record, my software works when I deliver it.  Any bugs that have a functional impact have been found and fixed before I deliver product.

I'll give an example:  Each time I try to build an exe in labview 8.2, the build has an error.  A sub-vi is missing.  A sub-vi broke during the build.  Each time I have to mass-compile.  Every now and then it works after I mass compile and re-save-all.  But usually I have to copy an entire vi to a blank vi and re-save it under the existing name.  Often I have to do this to multiple vi's, each time trying to build an exe and failing after 20 minutes of the lengthy build process.

Its WEDNESDAY.  I've been trying to build an existing app into an exe since MONDAY.  This happens every single time I change something.  I have EVERY RIGHT to complain.  This is costing us a lot of money.

When it takes hundreds of hours to rework every application I have, including thousands of vi's every single time NI has a new release, its not worth purchasing the next release then is it?

Message Edited by billings11 on 10-24-2007 02:15 PM

Message Edited by billings11 on 10-24-2007 02:21 PM

[Joe_H]

I'm not sure about all of the problems that you are having, but I have been runnig the database toolkit on LV 8.5 ever since 8.5 came out in beta. I have not seen any of the problems that you report.

[billings11]

Just 2 simple problems with the database toolkit.

1.  The database connectivity toolkit can not save variant data types to the database in labview 8.0 and later.  It cannot parse them properly.  There are workarounds like flattening to string and putting it in a cluster, but its still broken.

2.  The database connectivity toolkit ships with many vi's in labview 5.1.  Labview 8.5 will not compile 5.1 vi's.  So you cannot use the database connectivity toolkit without installing an earlier version of labview on the same machine and using it to mass compile to something between 5.1 and 8.5.  Labview 8.5 can't do it by itself.

The bugs are an annoyance, my real issue is that the toolkit obviously was never loaded to a clean 8.5 install and used by anyone at NI or they would have seen the compiling problem.  So the point is toolkit functionality is not checked from release to realease by NI.