Desktop ETS systems

[MSATLAB]

Hello,

     I built a complete custom computer from scratch to be compliant with the Real-Time Operating System.  It was a very difficult struggle, but here is what I have come up with and it works using LabVIEW 8.2.1

CPU:  Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 Processor (2.66 GHz / 1066 FSB)

Motherboard:  Asus P5NSLI

Power Supply:  Logisys 550W Power Supply

Memory:  3 GB Super Talent PC5300 RAM (667 MHz)

Video Card:  Chaintech GeForce 7300LE

Hard drives:  1.  80 GB PATA Western Digital

                              - Ultra DMA turned off / 30 GB FAT32 / 50 GB Unallocated / Master Position

                              - Contains LabVIEW RTOS on 30 GB Partition

                     2.  500 GB PATA Western Digital

                             - NTFS file format / Contains Windows XP

DVD Drive:  Asus DVD Read/Write Drive

Ethernet Card:  Intel Pro/100 S Desktop Adapter (Intel 82550EY Chipset)

                             -  Turned off the on-board ethernet chipset

There is my configuration.  It works in Real-Time and in Windows XP.  I am using a bootloader called GAG and can be found here (http://gag.sourceforge.net/).  It allows you to boot into RTOS or in Windows.  The key factor is having the hard drive with the LabVIEW RTOS in the Master Position.  That is what we got hung up on.  Hope this is detailed enough.  If you have any questions or want more detail message or email me.

Thank you

Michael Boyd

[geirove]

Hello,

Thanks to Boyd for his very detailed description of an ETS compatible system.

I have become aware of this NI software: http://joule.ni.com/nidu/cds/view/p/id/882/lang/en

that apparently tests a system for ETS compatibility.

Has anyone tried it?

Is it reliable?

A last question:
I have an old system I want to test ETS on. Do I first need to buy a license: http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/13753

or can I use my LV 8.5 Suite to download a verion of ETS to test if works at all? (and then of course buy the license if it works !)

[Jim_M]

Hi Geir,

          This software is currently one of two options available to checking the compatibility of your system to our RT software.  If you have a floppy disk, I would recommend downloading this software and using it with your system.  If not, you can use our USB key boot drive software available from within Measurement & Automation Explorer.  As far as purchasing a license, I would recommend that you test the compatibility of your system with the software listed above and if you find the system is compatible, then purchase the license and then install the software.  Have a great week and feel free to follow up with further questions.

[MSATLAB]

Geir,

     As Jim M stated in the last post, the PC Evaluation is one way to test.  I would suggest that to get you started in making sure that the components that you currently have are real-time compliant and then any changes that you need to make will be known from that test.  The main problem for me was the Ethernet card, but since the days of 8.2 they have greatly increased the number of supported components so this process is getting somewhat easier. 

Remember, if you do the dual boot loading with the boot loader you have to have NI as the master hard drive or the RTOS has a conniption.  If you have any more questions on my setup and how I did it I wrote a file that I attached below.  It gives details on how I did the multiple boot loading and how I set it up.

I hope all this is helpful.

Michael Boyd

[geirove]

---

Jim_M wrote:

Hi Geir,

          This software is currently one of two options available to checking the compatibility of your system to our RT software.  If you have a floppy disk, I would recommend downloading this software and using it with your system.  If not, you can use our USB key boot drive software available from within Measurement & Automation Explorer.  As far as purchasing a license, I would recommend that you test the compatibility of your system with the software listed above and if you find the system is compatible, then purchase the license and then install the software.  Have a great week and feel free to follow up with further questions.

---

Thanks for your answer.  I found, using an MAX under Win XP, that I could create a "PC Boot Disk". This disk seems to be more up tp date when it comes to drivers than the eval software, I am not sure. At least I had no problem getting several old systems up and running under ETS 🙂

What worries me though, is that NI, claiming to support Vista, does not support creating any kine of Boot / Format disk for PC / RT in MAX under Vista: Only creating a "PC Utility USB Drive" is supported. However, I have not seen any PC 3 - 4 years old that supports booting from USB.

I raised my concern about this in this post: http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?board.id=280&message.id=4021

but no-one at NI has answered.

I see no reason why MAX under Vista cannot format a floppy!  We have quie a few Pentium 3 and 4 machines that we have tested: An old Pentium 3 machine with a 850 Mhz processor runs about 10 time faster than a cFP 2120. 

For in house testing this is a nice option.

It is also a nice option where the customer wants a cheap solution, and NI PACs cannot compete in price with cheap PLS systems. It must be better for NI to sell RT licenses for PC boxes than not being a candidate for a project at all!

So my request remains: PLEASE do not stop supporting the Floppy "Boot Disk" and "Format Disk" utilities under MAX on Vista
 

[geirove]

---

MSATLAB wrote:
Geir, 
........
  If you have any more questions on my setup and how I did it I wrote a file that I attached below.  It gives details on how I did the multiple boot loading and how I set it up.

I hope all this is helpful.

Michael Boyd

---

Thanks a lot Boyd !

[rolfk]

---

@geirove wrote:

---

@Jim_M wrote:

Hi Geir,

          This software is currently one of two options available to checking the compatibility of your system to our RT software.  If you have a floppy disk, I would recommend downloading this software and using it with your system.  If not, you can use our USB key boot drive software available from within Measurement & Automation Explorer.  As far as purchasing a license, I would recommend that you test the compatibility of your system with the software listed above and if you find the system is compatible, then purchase the license and then install the software.  Have a great week and feel free to follow up with further questions.

---

Thanks for your answer.  I found, using an MAX under Win XP, that I could create a "PC Boot Disk". This disk seems to be more up tp date when it comes to drivers than the eval software, I am not sure. At least I had no problem getting several old systems up and running under ETS 🙂

What worries me though, is that NI, claiming to support Vista, does not support creating any kine of Boot / Format disk for PC / RT in MAX under Vista: Only creating a "PC Utility USB Drive" is supported. However, I have not seen any PC 3 - 4 years old that supports booting from USB.

I raised my concern about this in this post: http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?board.id=280&message.id=4021

but no-one at NI has answered.

I see no reason why MAX under Vista cannot format a floppy!  We have quie a few Pentium 3 and 4 machines that we have tested: An old Pentium 3 machine with a 850 Mhz processor runs about 10 time faster than a cFP 2120. 

For in house testing this is a nice option.

It is also a nice option where the customer wants a cheap solution, and NI PACs cannot compete in price with cheap PLS systems. It must be better for NI to sell RT licenses for PC boxes than not being a candidate for a project at all!

So my request remains: PLEASE do not stop supporting the Floppy "Boot Disk" and "Format Disk" utilities under MAX on Vista

---

One thing I noticed is you are talking in one sentence about 3 to 4 year old systems and in the next about Vista. I'm pretty sure those things go not go together very well at all.

And nowadays computers being able to run Vista come less and less equipped with a Floppy drive. So I'm not sure that the ability to create a boot floppy under Vista is such an important feature!

Rolf Kalbermatter

[geirove]

---

rolfk wrote:

One thing I noticed is you are talking in one sentence about 3 to 4 year old systems and in the next about Vista. I'm pretty sure those things go not go together very well at all.

And nowadays computers being able to run Vista come less and less equipped with a Floppy drive. So I'm not sure that the ability to create a boot floppy under Vista is such an important feature!

Rolf Kalbermatter

---

You seem to be confused here! This is the scenario:

a) You have a new PC with Vista and LabView installed that you use for LV development

b) You have one or many old PCs (no longer in use) where you want to run RT (RTS)

The old pc may never have seen NI software at all!  You use your new PC with LV to create a Boot Media to install LV RT (ETS).

Many of the old pc's are hardly capable of running LabView, but they are very fast running RT !

Message Edited by geirove on 06-22-2008 10:19 AM

[Jimmie_A.]

Hello Geir,

I fully understand your use case scenario and why you would like to see floppy boot support on Vista. I believe the disk-imaging tool we make use of don’t support Vista natively and that is the main reason why the boot utilities is somewhat limited on Vista compared to XP for an example.

You can write a Product Suggestion so R&D can see that it is a feature that is requested, link can be found below:

http://digital.ni.com/applications/psc.nsf/default?OpenForm

[geirove]

---

Jimmie A. wrote:

Hello Geir,

I fully understand your use case scenario and why you would like to see floppy boot support on Vista. I believe the disk-imaging tool we make use of don’t support Vista natively and that is the main reason why the boot utilities is somewhat limited on Vista compared to XP for an example.

You can write a Product Suggestion so R&D can see that it is a feature that is requested, link can be found below:

http://digital.ni.com/applications/psc.nsf/default?OpenForm

---

Hello Jimmie.

Thanks for your reply and your link.What I do not understand, is why LV users have to "beg" for features not to be removed from LV! I know you do not control the policy, but I think it is a bad policy ! To use and trust LV in industrial development, we need a system that is stable over **many** years.

In one year, I have now seen

a) cFP / ETS drop in speed from LV 8.2 to 8.5 so that we cannot LV 8.5 to develop the clients system further if needed.

See: http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?board.id=170&thread.id=275320

b) RT Utilities functionality being dramatically reduced in functionality so that we cannot use Vista to do this kind of development. (and MS soon stops supporting Win XP !)

(this thread)

Compare this to PLS systems where I have continued development of 20 year old programs with their lastest tools: No drop in functionality in the tool, and the tool being backward compatible with the old code.

I only complain about this because I ** care ** about LV and do want to stay in business (Industrial Automation) using LV and PACs / PXI for many years knowing that NI backs my company up in this effort. All this "slicing" of functionality is not a good sign.