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Hidden Controls

tst wrote;

"

I have several guesses:

  1. A legacy from a time where long paths were a problem. It wasn't changed until a project environment was created.
  2. To more easily support platform independence.
  3. To keep the relative path scheme which LV has. Something which can't be done with full path names.
"
 
Wonderful guesses! If we we playing Balderdash, you'd get my vote. (Rick?)
 
 
Darren Wrote;
 
"
P.S. - I was going to discuss the GetType.llb as a Weekly Nugget topic, but I think it has sufficient coverage now that you posted it to the Interesting Topics thread.  Looks like I'll have to discuss some other cool utility hiding in vi.lib somewhere instead...
"
 
You have to be careful with us. We'll drain every drop of info you have if given the chance!
 
Ben
Retired Senior Automation Systems Architect with Data Science Automation LabVIEW Champion Knight of NI and Prepper LinkedIn Profile YouTube Channel
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Message 21 of 52
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A cluster has an option "Show Hidden Controls" (because this is very inconvenient to do), so they should provide something similar for tabpages and front panels.


For now, try the attached vi. Put it in the projects sub directory (restart LV), and you even get some of the NI look and feel. You can keep the vi open while developing. The name string is a bit short, but otherwise it occupies to much screen space. The option doesn't work from the diagram. The best way (I can think of) to get the topmost panel (front panel OR diagram) is to use nasty windows API's (AFAIK), and that's just not worth it.


The code is reasonable clean for a 2h vi with this complexity (no clusters in shift registers). Normally I'd use sub vi's, but then I'd have to use a .llb, or all subvi's show up in the menu. Consider it a "one-liner".


Regards,


Wiebe.


"jspaarg" <x@no.email> wrote in message news:1139407847421-322026@exchange.ni.com...
All these ideas&nbsp;and VIs sound&nbsp;really useful, but they still seem to be a work-around for an inadequacy in the development environment.
It still seems that solution is for NI to provide a menu item (e.g. under edit) that just turns modifies the visible attribute for all controls (and indicators) in a project.
&nbsp;
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Message 22 of 52
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Oops, no recursion into arrays jet. That'll have to wait until tomorrow.


Regards,


Wiebe.
"Wiebe@CARYA" <wiNOebe.walsSPtra@carAMya.nl> wrote in message news:43ea23a2@PYROS.natinst.com...
A cluster has an option "Show Hidden Controls" (because this is very inconvenient to do), so they should provide something similar for tabpages and front panels.


For now, try the attached vi. Put it in the projects sub directory (restart LV), and you even get some of the NI look and feel. You can keep the vi open while developing. The name string is a bit short, but otherwise it occupies to much screen space. The option doesn't work from the diagram. The best way (I can think of) to get the topmost panel (front panel OR diagram) is to use nasty windows API's (AFAIK), and that's just not worth it.


The code is reasonable clean for a 2h vi with this complexity (no clusters in shift registers). Normally I'd use sub vi's, but then I'd have to use a .llb, or all subvi's show up in the menu. Consider it a "one-liner".


Regards,


Wiebe.


"jspaarg" <x@no.email> wrote in message news:1139407847421-322026@exchange.ni.com...
All these ideas&nbsp;and VIs sound&nbsp;really useful, but they still seem to be a work-around for an inadequacy in the development environment.
It still seems that solution is for NI to provide a menu item (e.g. under edit) that just turns modifies the visible attribute for all controls (and indicators) in a project.
&nbsp;
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Message 23 of 52
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Perhaps my issues are mostly a result of my background, primarily with text-based, embedded and PC environments and inexperience with LabView in general.

I probably represent the most dangerous combination, someone with a lot of experience in a number of langague and environments trying to force my interactions with LabView to fit my text-based paradigm.

But a few points that I think are germane:

The ability to link in pre-built libraries

Since LabView (prior to 8 anyway) ran only from memory,

linking in libraries is probably not an issue.  However, I notice that when I load my main VI, it sometimes spends tens of seconds looking for files that it loaded the last time it was launched.  Why is that?

The ability to run post-processing programs on built systems.

This is generally important when you need to modify a created executable (or hex file in embedded land) by adding serial number, checksums, watermarks, etc.

The ability to run simulations and inject signals.

That may be one of its purported strengths, but I am running a motion system with a 7344 card in one system, but cannot get my development system to "pretend" that it has a 7344 card installed.  There might be an easy way to do this but, as of yet, I haven't found it.
 
Well-integrated help (I find LabView's help to be very middle of the road in terms of ease of use)

There certainly is a lot of help available, and yes there is context-sensitive (although the response to the mouse motion can be annoying).

My comments are more along the lines of trying to find things before you know what VI to use.

 

It seems that I need to spend a lot of time setting up palettes the way that I want, and just do a lot more reading.

LabView has a tremendous amount of flexibility for the developer, but it seems that the flexibility is a compensation, not a bonus.

Still, it is much easier to use (and a lot less buggy) than the LabWindows version 2.2 that I was using ten years ago.

 
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Message 24 of 52
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I probably represent the most dangerous combination, someone with a lot of experience in a number of language and environments trying to force my interactions with LabView to fit my text-based paradigm.

Yes, I can understand the difficulty in that. Overall, LV has an incredibly low learning curve and is very rewarding to the experienced LV programmer, but those coming into it, especially those needing to make a paradigm shift into the data flow model do tend to find it hard and often produce "graphical text-based code" which looks bad and makes LV look bad.

The ability to link in pre-built libraries

Since LabView (prior to 8 anyway) ran only from memory, linking in libraries is probably not an issue.  However, I notice that when I load my main VI, it sometimes spends tens of seconds looking for files that it loaded the last time it was launched.  Why is that?

I don't think there is any difference in LV 8. Everything still has to be loaded into memory. The only difference is that you can have more than one application instance (something which was available with previous versions, BTW, as I said in the other thread, just not in a project environment). LV code is constantly complied at design time. This allows for immense ease of development. For example, it's what allows LV to immediately break your VI if anything is wrong, even if the problem is 6 levels down.

But to do that, all the code needs to be in memory, so it needs to be loaded. Now, this should take a while for VIs with many hundreds of subVIs, but even my fairly slow and old laptop doesn't take tens of seconds to do that. At most, it will take roughly 20 seconds to load a hierarchy of about 500-600 VIs, and that's just after I started LV and it's still not up to speed.

If LV is really looking for files (something which would take a lot of time) it means that you didn't save the calling VI the last time or that you moved some of the files. When LV can't find a file where it expects it, it will start looking through various places (which can be set through the options menu).

The ability to run post-processing programs on built systems.

This is generally important when you need to modify a created executable (or hex file in embedded land) by adding serial number, checksums, watermarks, etc.

Well, I still don't understand this one, but if you're talking about modifying an LV EXE, I believe this can be done with a resource hacker, although most changes would probably break the file. There are ways to protect and validate LV code (although not built into LV). If you tell us exactly what you want, we can probably help.

The ability to run simulations and inject signals.

That may be one of its purported strengths, but I... cannot get my development system to "pretend" that it has a 7344 card installed. 

I don't think that you can do that (although I haven't worked with any of NI's motion cards yet). When needing to simulate hardware, you can usually temporarily replace the hardware VIs with simulator VIs, but that would require designing such a simulator. How would you do such a simulation in a text-based language?

...the response to the mouse motion can be annoying

Can't argue on that one.

My comments are more along the lines of trying to find things before you know what VI to use.

Yes, knowing that things exist and where to find them is tricky because LV comes with many hundreds of built-in functions (not to mention add-ons) and that probably takes time and practice. You might consider taking one of NI's courses (haven't done them myself).

It seems that I need to spend a lot of time setting up palettes the way that I want, and just do a lot more reading.

I never really found any need to set up the palettes. I just changed the express view to the dynamic one and that was enough.

One extremely good way of learning is through the on line communities. The three largest ones are probably this one, the LAVA forums and Info-LabVIEW, all with intelligent, funny people who can help you learn about LV. You can try helping yourself and you will find out that the more you read and participate, the more you will know. Check out the BreakPoint for some fun.

In general, most people who get to use LV regularly get spoiled by it and don't want to go back to other languages later. The ease of development is quite addictive. It just requires understanding how it works.


___________________
Try to take over the world!
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Message 25 of 52
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I just had to update the tool I used for this the other day to handle recursion into clusters & so forth. I've cleaned it up a bit and have attached it (LV v7.1.1).
Not only will it make everything visible but it can hide it all again as well.
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Message 26 of 52
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"Wiebe@CARYA" <wiNOebe.walsSPtra@carAMya.nl> wrote in message news:43ea23a2@PYROS.natinst.com...
A cluster has an option "Show Hidden Controls" (because this is very inconvenient to do), so they should provide something similar for tabpages and front panels.


For now, try the attached vi. Put it in the projects sub directory (restart LV), and you even get some of the NI look and feel. You can keep the vi open while developing. The name string is a bit short, but otherwise it occupies to much screen space. The option doesn't work from the diagram. The best way (I can think of) to get the topmost panel (front panel OR diagram) is to use nasty windows API's (AFAIK), and that's just not worth it.


The code is reasonable clean for a 2h vi with this complexity (no clusters in shift registers). Normally I'd use sub vi's, but then I'd have to use a .llb, or all subvi's show up in the menu. Consider it a "one-liner".


Regards,


Wiebe.



Here is the same VI, but it steps into arrays. I also added "show all" and "hide all" buttons.


Regards,


Wiebe.
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Message 27 of 52
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wiebe@CARYA wrote:

Here is the same VI, but it steps into arrays. I also added "show all" and "hide all" buttons.

Wiebe.


Wiebe,
 
This is the second time in this thread that you have said that you were attaching something, yet nothing shows up as being attached.  You might check how you are using this message board. Of course it doesn't help that there is a know problem with this system that if you compose your message, add the attachment and then "Preview Post" it'll strip off the attachment. After using Preview Post you'll need to reattach any files that you had previously attached.
 
Molly said here that this bug was being addressed but she said that almost a year ago so I'm getting the feeling that the bug is becoming a permanent feature.Smiley Sad
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Message 28 of 52
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I thought that might be the problem... I use Outlook Express, and the attachments show up just fine.

Perhaps now it shows up (I use forums.ni.com now).

 

Message 29 of 52
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Hello all:

There are three known issues with attachments:
1 - Cannot attach files larger than 5MB.
2 - If you are posting in the forums, and you preview your post, you will need to readd your attachment before submitting your post.
3 - Files attached using the NNTP newsgroups are not sent to the forums.

These are all still on the list of things that we would like fixed, but I don't have timelines on any of them.  The first is the highest priority of the three

Thanks!

Molly K.
Web Support & Operations Manager
National Instruments
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Message 30 of 52
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