Introducing LabVIEW 2009

[Dennis_Knutson]

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10Degree wrote:

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Ps. would you please contact the Database Toolkit team and ask them for their Productization schedule for me so that I can start re-writing my database-driven applications using something else?

pps.  Does anyone know how to install or use the 8.6.1 MathScript components in LV 2009?

Thank you,
-cb
 

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Fyi, the Database Toolkit is and has always been a separate add-on. You've been paying for it if you have the Dev suite and there are numerous free alternaltives.

[Steve257]

"I would also like to emphasize that this is not a trend that is forming with the LabVIEW product.  We are not going to be productizing and removing other features of the LabVIEW Core environment.  This was a one-off decision made with special circumstances."

Hmmm, I'm installing LV2009 to check out if it's better than LV8.5.1 that I'm currently using for development, and discovered that the Application Builder is now "Included as part of the LabVIEW Professional Development System".  That's all well and good, but I've got only the 'Full Development System" that used to have AppBuilder included!

So, now, I've got to buy MathScript AND AppBuilder to get back to what I used to have included!!!

This is not fun

Also, the installation implies that I need to have the "Internet Toolkit" to do Remote Panels (again something that's included in my 8.5.1)...I hope I misunderstood that, and it'll be one of the 'features' I'll be checking out.

Steve

[Dennis_Knutson]

You are not correct. The app builder has never been part of the full installation. If you have the full edition and the app builder, then the app builder was purchased separately and you can get an upgrade. The Internet Toolkit is not required for remote panels.

[Steve257]

My mistake--I finished the install, and used my old SerialNumber (back from 8.20 no less), and AppBuilder activated--I'm relieved!  Also happy to hear that RP's will still work without the Internet ToolKit.

One other minor gripe that I had with 8.6 (which is why I didn't move to it) was that with 8.5.1, the Full version came with 1 RP license built in.  This allowed me to build an app for a customer and allow 1 other person to view it (which was a selling point to getting them to buy the multiple RP licenses).  When I tried out 8.6, the included single license was gone (at least I couldn't find it)--I'd be willing to bet that it's not in 2009 either.

Steve

[Dennis_Knutson]

I can't say about the number of licenses with the full version. The pro version comes with 5 and that has not changed.

[Neil.Pate]

Ya, I had hope that this was the case and that I could find that UI somewhere (I would have removed it altogether if it was password protected and hope that LV would still have worked ok), but I think it is one of these that are not accessible to us.

About the modified icon editor, out of curiosity, is it useful to you?

PJM

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Honestly, I have not had too much hands on time with 2009 as I am in crunch mode on a 8.6 project.

I have been following the changes you made on the forum though, and think your input is great! I cannot express how happy I am that the icon editor IS open, and that people can (and are) willing to devote their time to making it better.

Hopefully in the next few weeks I can spend more time with 2009.

Message Edited by nrp on 08-18-2009 10:08 PM

[Mads]

The introduction of direct recursive calls in LV2009 gave me hope that perhaps the performance of recursive calls by reference (as supported in the previous version(s)) had been improved. I upgraded one of our RT apps for PACs to see if it performed better - and it did.

One critical use of recursive calls that are of importance in our code is in the OpenG configuration file VIs...and the reason why it is critical is the fact that they make parsing .ini files very slow. On a PC the effect is more or less neglible (unless you have thousands of config files..), however the real penalty comes when you run it on a PAC. It can be more than 100-200 times slower there than on a PC(!!) I'm very happy to report that indeed - the performance of the recursive calls have improved a lot, and it seems to be the same whether you use the old by-reference call or the newly supported direct call. As an example the parsing of one of our typical .ini files (180 keys of different data types) now takes 30% less time on a PC....and 80% less time on a cFP controller! In this case that means that the parsing time has dropped from 5 to 1 second on the controller, very good.  I had hoped that it would become even faster - preferably an order or two faster...but it's definitely a good development.

Now of course the config file example is a bit special - and there may be other contributions than changes in the recursive calls, so perhaps someone has compared recursive calls on a more general set of tasks?

If so - how does it perform on PCs and PACs? A sorting algorithm e.g. could be interesting to do and test with recursive calls...

Message Edited by Mads on 08-18-2009 04:09 PM

[kmcdevitt]

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Dennis Knutson wrote:

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10Degree wrote:

....

Ps. would you please contact the Database Toolkit team and ask them for their Productization schedule for me so that I can start re-writing my database-driven applications using something else?

Thank you,

-cb
 

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Fyi, the Database Toolkit is and has always been a separate add-on. You've been paying for it if you have the Dev suite and there are numerous free alternaltives.

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Dennis,

Database Toolkit IS a component included as part of the NI Developer Suite Core package.

You don't have to pay extra for it if you own any of the Developer Suites.  It is part of the Core.

You actually pay for it when you purchase the Dev Suite.

Do you understand that components of these Pro, Full, and Suite packages are be removed from said packages and that we are being required to repurchase them?

Don't you find something inherently unfair about what is happening?

10Degree has seen it happen with other components, and he is concerned that it might happen to Database Toolkit some day.

Kevin. 

[Dennis_Knutson]

The dev suite is not the same thing as the base, full, or pro versions of LabVIEW and I stand by my statement - the database toolkit is a separate component as 10Degree seemed not to understand. You restated what I said about the dev suite. 

The only component that has been removed is Mathscript.  If you or 10Degree can name anything else that has been removed, I would like to know about it. On the other hand, over the years, numerous components have been added (event structures, LVOOP, scripting, timed loops, to name just a few) and I would have much more sympathy if you and the rest of the Mathscript users were compeltely dropped. But, you are not. You get to use it for one more year without paying for it.

[10Degree]

I am sorry Dennis, but it seems that you don't understand, and are not taking the time to think reasonably about the issue being discussed.  When I handed NI a sweaty wad of hundred dollar bills and purchased a copy of developer suite, it came with a grocery list of included functionality, toolkits, and the like.  I don't recall reading anything that stated that the provided major features and functions would or could be yanked in the future, and be offered as addons for sale.  Obviously, it is up to NI to provide products and services that fit within their business model and derive revenue as they see fit - hence this decision.  As you say, they have also added significant functionality and value to the product over the years - and this is what they need to do to maintain customers, build market share, and grow the company.  I really like LabVIEW - it's an amazing tool for engineering design.  But if NI does something that I don't see eye-to-eye on, I don't mind letting them know that customers are irritated.