LV8 and why i hate it.

[Vr6Fidelity]

First of all i have spent vast amounts of money with ni, approaching 80k. I am totally outraged at LV8. You have replaced the "write file" vi?! Apparently when installing LV8 It will automattically, without warning replace SEVERAL vi's with different ones. So without notice all of your VI's which used to output data in spreadsheets (who would do that?) Will now produce usless binary files. Of course even though the installation process now takes hours, involving 6 cd's, somehow NI felt the need to not include the write file VI. Clearly there must not have been room right? Or maybe its because people rarley "write files" with labview. Or perhaps it's just another way for NI to screw me out of some more money. I think this is the case. You will also notice you are not allowed to buy an additional copy of LV7 the version i am comfortable with. Isn't it odd how NI continues to dish out countless revisions of labview with all of these seemingly minor changes? The reason: Service contracts, It seems that NI's primary goal with each revision is to change some critical file slightly so that the VI produces an error or is just flat out broken. Then you call NI for help with the software you spent a grand on two days before, and you go to the "sales department" Thats where they try to extort you for another 1000 dollars per year to answer your tecnical questions to problems NI created. Spectacular. So glad i spent the money to go to a week of LV7 training for it all to be thrown out the window for this year's extortion based revision. Thanks alot.

[chrisger]

hi there,

i can't check if these vi's are those you are looking for cause my LV8-evaluation period expired, but please take a look at

LabVIEW 8.0\vi.lib\Utility\file.llb\*.*

i think these are the old file VIs. pls check if there is some kind of "classic" view for the functions palette for better access of these Vis.

[PJS]

Obviously you are very hot about this, and this thread is sure to start a few rants into a variety of things.  Your example of the write to spreadsheet function should not be an issue, it still writes a tab delimted txt file that can be opened and read quite normally by notepad.  I verified this to be sure.  Granted the VI description does not give you this indication, but it works fine. 

I have upgraded a number of concurrent projects to LV8 from 7.1.1 with few problems other than I am missing toolkits since I have not recieved my SSP upgrade for LV8 and probably jumped the gun.  I certainly have not seen any issues that you have described like broken VIs, except where I have been doing some things 'under the hood' but nothing that took more than a few seconds to correct.  I have been hesitant to re-install from previous versions and am working around this for a week or so until my promised SSP shows up. 

Support for previous versions are always a point of contention, and most certainly people wanting to buy more copies of a previous version are valid concerns.  In the past, I have simply used my new serial numbers with the previous version.  Not sure if that puts me at odd with the licensing agreement, but I have the correct number of licenses for the correct number of installations.  Usually NI will work with you on this point, the best source for this should be your DSM.  If their hands are 'tied' you can talk to your Area sales manager or the regional sales manager.  I almost always have reached an acceptable arrangement doing this.  I have been using LabVIEW since V3.0 and have had both positive and negative experiences with upgrades.  Better development habits over the years have improved my upgrade experiences and no experience very few issues when upgrading.  I tend to try and keep completed software in their native versions, but sometimes this is impossible. 

I would suggest rather than simply blow steam out of your ears (and it sounds like, in your situation, it may be warranted) if you can provide good constructive points.  State how this experience can be improved, Ask for help in dealing with the issues that tech support is being beligerent in, you will find a number of people that can help because we have been there.  I, for one, am keenly interested in seeing where there are problems upgrading, cause I still have projects that our team here needs to be upgrade. 

The three biggest things that I dislike about the new version:

1. Launch time compared to previous versions.  It takes a while.
2. Something in the graphics drivers that cause shadowing to stay on after blinking, and more display artifacts as you scroll in a diagram at the edges.  These are not as apparent in LV <= 7.1.  The artifacts on the edge are there from time to time, but are more pronounced in 8.  This happens on my PXI development system, desktop and laptop. 
3. Poor documentation about the project explorer, examples and documentation on what the vision is for 'proper' usage. 

Cheers and happy wireworks!

[Vr6Fidelity]

I will admit i was and still am fuirous about this. Perhaps you will visit my other nicley worded post a few spots down where i am begging people to get me operational again.

[jasonhill]

Funny.  I had upgrade issues, too.  Apparently unrelated bugs features, at that.  I think my biggest gripe was how poorly documented the changes were.  It is agrivating enough to deal with an upended GUI without trying to debug your previously working programs at the same time.  Every little wart becomes another straw on the camel's back.

That said, I do have a service contract and the tech support guys were very helpfull.

[Vr6Fidelity]

To the top

[MartyS]

After reading the postings in this thread describing specific porting problems involving LV 8, I can think of one large application written in LV 6.1 that will be ported, if and when the time comes, to LV 7.1. We especially can't afford any weird GUI modifications, however minor; and we do a lot of file manipulation; and schedules are always too tight, so we have to minimize time to repair software, and time to regression-test on expensive contended-for hardware.

But our new applications will be built in LV 8. I expect the worst problems will be fixed soon enough, and we can find workarounds if we have to.

Yes, NI charges plenty, but LV is a great product and the world will have to keep current, by and large. Having said that, I hope NI doesn't morph into a Microsoft-like monopolistic money-sucking purveyor of mediocrity. I don't know whether or not to be optimistic on that point. These LV 8 glitches seem like "rush-to-market" issues, but maybe that's part of the problem. Related anecdote: at a recent free LV 8 seminar given by NI, I saw several demos crash or otherwise fail to work correctly.

The more market share NI has, and the more Microsoft-like features LV has (e.g. Projects etc.), and the bigger the headache for NI to keep backward-compatibility, the greater the incentive will be to charge more for tech support, issue skimpy documentation (NI documentation is OK but often patchy--Examples notwithstanding), and otherwise slide down the familiar slippery slope.

::Marty

[Vr6Fidelity]

I can do nothing but assume that this is one of two things. Im guessing the latter choice B is correct.

A. This release was simply rushed to release. I have yet to find ANY USEFUL IMPROVEMENTS whatsoever.

B. The only reason LV8 was released was to make a multitude of minor changes, IN ORDER TO GENERATE SERVICE CONTRACTS.

As a matter of fact i have yet to discover a single worthwhile improvement. Not one. As a matter of fact i despise the fact that NI has decided to Re-Invent the wheel when it comes the SAVING!! Do i really need a 3 choice dialog box to save a file? Not only is this entire dialog totally un-needed, but the descriptions of the 3 choices are terrible. I literally had to read them several times in order to glean what the buttons really did. Im pretty sure we needed no improvement in "file saving" as this hasnt changed since windows v3.11.

There is no way NI did not forsee issues when they decided to change "write to file". I mean come on, when is the last time anyone wrote a vi that does not involve acessing a file?

[AnalogKid2DigitalMan]

Well, just last week I wrote a vi that has no file I/O. It controls the power of an industrial CO2 laser by adjusting duty cycle of a square wave. Yes, I do spend the $800 a year for the SSP for Professional Version. It is quite well worth if even if I only have used tech support twice in many years. Doing so has provided versions 6, 7, and now 8 for use in my company. Rapid development and deployment using LV has more than paid for itself many times over in productivity.

Just my angle on the 'extortion' situation.

[tbob]

Vr6....  You are preaching to the wrong choir.  I found several useful new features in LV8 that I would not consider minor.  The project explorer being one, and the disable structure being another.  If you don't like it, don't use it.  You have a choice.  Those of us that do like it welcome the new features.  Money is always part of the game.  I totally agree with AK2DM on the SSP being worth every penny.  These guys are immensely helpful when needed.  The time saved in not going round and round on a problem pays for itself.  Maybe LV8 was rushed to the market, as evident by the crashes you saw.  Or perhaps the demo programs were rushed to the seminar, no time to make it robust.  I think the latter is the case.  You can even make a C program crash with bad programming.  That's not to say that C itself is bad.

As far as NI going the way of Microsuck, I don't think that will ever happen.  NI is too customer oriented.  I've seen several instances of NI bending over backwards to please a customer (even a small customer).  They are driven to make their products the best on the market, while Microshaft is driven to drive the competition into the ground with marketing tactics so that their 4th rate software is the only one available on the market.  Big difference.  Maybe LV8 isn't for you, can't please everyone all the time.  However, I would say that the majority of people who use LV and NI products are quite satisfied with their stuff, and welcome the new and improved flavors.