Max. image size NI Vision?

[rolfk]

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sammamishmac wrote:

Since the image size seems to be a limitation with the OS (Windows XP), does anyone know if larger images can be processed with Labview running on MacOS or Linux?

Thanks,

Ron

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The differences on those systems is only marginal in this respect. The fact that they use a 32 bit adress range is the culprit here. However LabVIEW and most other applications don't run under 64 bit OSes yet and NI specifically reserves the right to not make any announcements about future versions of LabVIEW, which means all you can get from them is that they are looking into the demand for 64 bit versions of their software but won't tell you when and if they plan to release such a version. In respect to LabVIEW I'm sure the issues to make it work seemlessly on 64 bit systems is a taunting task since it is in itself a compiler and quite a lot of it's internal 32 bitness is showing through in many subtle ways up to a LabVIEW diagram. Making a 64 bit version of LabVIEW that supports full 64bit features and still can compile and run existing VIs created on 32 bit LabVIEW without any compatibility issues, will be a very hard task if possible at all.

Rolf Kalbermatter

[ST1]

I have relatively small measurement targets captured as part of a customer's digitization process.  The targets are analyzed for quality control purposes.  Customer images are getting larger as scann/camera technology grows.  The customer images are 16-bit RGB images that are saved as jpeg or tiff.  I want to crop out my small section and perform analysis on it but am unable to even open the main image of approximately 320Mb.  I understand the OS and hardware contributions to this problem but I'm also very disappointed in NI's progress in keeping up with these market requirements, especially considering the fact that we can't get Vision for use on a Mac or Linux.  For the cost of the library and the deployment engine, I had expected more.

[sammamishmac]

As noted in other posts on this topic, image sizes will only increase as applications grow so this is an issue that needs addressed in the near future. I attended an NI technical symposium last week and there were a number of users who were running into problems related to image size limitations. Streaming video and medical imaging technologies can generate large, high resolution images that require processing.

I personally don't believe that technical issues in converting from 32 to 64 bit may be insurmountable. I do understand that design decisions made when images larger than 1GB seemed farfetched will cause some headaches during the conversion process.

I have found that you can't read an 8 bit image from disk larger than 1GB and that several image processing VIs will fail with insufficient memory errors on images smaller than 100 MB. My application requires me to process images as large as 8GB. As it turns out, the 1GB memory limit is not only a problem for NI Vision but Labview in general. Maximum array sizes are limited, so solutions involving reading images in segments and reassembling them in arrays will also not work. For my application, processing pieces of images as independent images introduces major technical issues. I need Labview 64-bit for the memory addressability.

As pointed out in one of the replies to my original post, NI Vision is not an inexpensive software package and expectations are high. If users are forced to use other vision library packages because of NI Vision's limitations, these are customers who will be lost to NI forever. I am interested in a release time frame because I need to make design decisions now.

[rolfk]

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sammamishmac wrote:

I personally don't believe that technical issues in converting from 32 to 64 bit may be insurmountable. I do understand that design decisions made when images larger than 1GB seemed farfetched will cause some headaches during the conversion process.

I think you underestimate the issues. It is not just making LabVIEW run natively under 64 bits. That I'm quite sure NI can already do. It is the issue about breaking all kinds of compatiblity with 32 bit Windows in things like flattened data, etc. to allow for compatibility to 32 bit programs. You do not want to go into every single VI when moving a VI library to 64 bit LabVIEW and not only check every possible node for such compatibilty issues but make lots and lots of modifications to the VIs to make them run the same in LabVIEW 64 bit.

For instance LabVIEW 64 bits will need new datatypes such as 64bit handles for arrays and possibly strings to allow for that large data arrays and when using them going back to 32 bits will need either automatic adaption with compatibility issues for things like flattened data and such or broken VIs.

It's these things that make LabVIEW 64 bits a taunting task and the fact also that the entire compiler for every CPU/OS combination needs to be more or less rewritten from scratch for 64 bits mode if they want to take advantage of 64 bits at all. That compiler is the heart of LabVIEW and at the same time one of the most delicate and possibly fragile parts of the entire system. One error in there has very far reaching consequences for the usability of LabVIEW.

As pointed out in one of the replies to my original post, NI Vision is not an inexpensive software package and expectations are high. If users are forced to use other vision library packages because of NI Vision's limitations, these are customers who will be lost to NI forever. I am interested in a release time frame because I need to make design decisions now.

All I can say is: Don't hold your breath! I have no inside knowledge in that aspect, but as far as I gathered no matter how they got asked until now, the only comment was always: We make no statements about our further release plans for LabVIEW both about 64 bits versions as well as support for other operating systems/platforms.

Rolf Kalbermatter

[sammamishmac]

I'm not making any claims about the complexity of the conversion process. I myself have been involved in converting 16 bit applications to 32 bit back in the day. The points you make are true for any 32 applications that exist today, not just Labview. As soon as demand develops for 64-bit applications, they will come. I'm not making any predictions, nor am I holding my breath. You can rest assured that NI has plenty of resources and they are currently working on the 64 bit version.