PDA Module no longer supports Palm OS?

[rberger]

Hello NI & the gang:

Just read in the release notes Palm OS is not supported in the new PDA module 8.2.

Does NI believe this OS is going to die and/or is their not enough demand for PDA Palm OS at the present time for further development?

Thanks

Robert

[Michael_N.]

Hello Robert,

Glad to know that someone reads our PDA documentation. You are correct about Palm OS support. Given the ubiquitiousness of Microsoft Pocket PC/Windows Mobile in the handheld market, there is almost no demand for virtual instrumentation systems based on the Palm OS. In focusing solely on supporting the Windows Mobile OS, NI will be able to bring more new features and improvements to PDA users going forward.

Thanks for your interest in the LabVIEW PDA Module.

Best regards,

Mike N.

NI LabVIEW Product Manager

[rberger]

In that case, how about setting up a thread just for Windows Mobile feature requests after v8.2 ships?  I can suggest many features that are needed.

Thanks

Robert

[Michael_N.]

Hi Robert,

If there are features that you would like to request, I suggest you go ahead and start a thread on them.  Better yet, visit our Product Suggestion Center and submit a request for these features.  We would love to have your feedback.

http://digital.ni.com/applications/psc.nsf/default?openform

Regards,

Mike N.

[Trager]

I'm really disappointed with this particular decision on NI's part, particularly in light of the fact that last time I checked, Palm still has a higher share of the smartphone market than Windows Mobile does.  Is there any option for developers who wish to continue developing LabVIEW applications for Palm PDAs?  I note from NI.com that NI is still shipping the Palm OS development kit, but you can't actually get LV 8 any more, can you?

[rberger]

Hi Trager, how you doin?

I have mixed feelings about this decision by NI.  Yes, Palm OS still has a higher market share than Windows Mobile.  The Treo 650 was/is a great smartphone that really increased Palm OS market share.  Now the next generation of Treo's come out (Treo 700 series) and one of them has Windows Mobile!  Makes me wonder why Palm hardware people sold their soul to the devil?  Its the software that generates revs not the hardware - duh!  I also notice some of the bigger shareholders of Palm were selling their shares.  Now that doesn't bode well with me for the future of the company.  In addition, Palm OS app development was a pain in the butt to program.  One had to create VIs no larger than 64K.  This is a limitation of the Palm OS and not NI.  Thats the reason Palm apps run so fast and are very effiecient.  However, this limitation made Virtual Instrumentation on the Palm a big pain.  Notice there is very little hardware (other than some obscure 3rd party vendors) that offers data acquisition on a Palm OS device.

The other side says what happens if Palm OS regains market share?  Moreover, what if the next Palm OS eliminates the 64K program program chunk limitiation in its next OS release?  Makes me wonder if NI knows something I don't and I would like NI to elaborate more on THEIR business decision of discontinuing LV for Palm OS.  If Palm OS is sucessful in this aspect, the concept of LabVIEW everywhere is pretty much condensing.

The only bright side I see for myself as a developer is NI decision to eliminate Palm OS support leads me to believe more resources will be allocated for further development of PocketPC, Windows Mobile/CE OS developement tools.  Believe me, they need to do it.  I've been painstakingly uncovering many esorteric bugs on Windows PDA platform (and Palm), submitted bug reports through this forum and had them verified by others.  A lot of the bugs have propogated from one version to the next (v7 all the way to v8.01).  I'm hoping before they put in new features they can at least tackle the bug issues.

In conclusion, what does this mean for me as a developer?  If the market dictates I need to create apps for the Palm OS, I'm HOPING NI will at least keep V8.01 available for purchase.  Then too, I HOPE NI keeps market factors in consideration.  In the scenario PALM OS starts gobbling up market share again and creates an OS condusive to Virtual Instrumentation app devlopment, I HOPE NI will consider supporting Palm OS again.  In due time, myself like NI will have to wait and see who wins the Mobile OS wars.

Thanks for reading and I hope NI responds.

Robert

[Ray.R]

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@rberger wrote:

Hi Trager, how you doin?

 The Treo 650 was/is a great smartphone that really increased Palm OS market share.  Now the next generation of Treo's come out (Treo 700 series) and one of them has Windows Mobile!  Makes me wonder why Palm hardware people sold their soul to the devil? 

---

Thanks Robert for the very informative post.

YIKES!!!!  That is horrible if Palm OS goes away.  To be replaced by more Windoze stuff (I won't start...).

Just as I'm starting to explore NI-Palm apps, I read this..  -sigh -

😞

[Michael_N.]

Hi Robert and Trager,

You both bring up several good points.  NI R&D has spent a lot of time and energy since the inception of the PDA Module making sure that it is truly supported on both OS platforms.  This impacts not only our software development process, but also other areas like documentation. Supporting both platforms often meant fewer new features and bug fixes due to resource constraints.

At the same time, the handheld market is clearly moving to Windows Mobile (including Palm devices). This is reflected in the make up of our PDA Module customers, who overwhelmingly favor devices running Windows Mobile.  However, NI will continue to monitor market share trends in the PDA market and if something changes dramatically, we will reevaluate our decision on OS support.  More than anything, NI wants to make sure that we are responsive to customer needs.

Thanks to both of you for your feedback on this issue.

Mike N.

LabVIEW Product Manager

[Trager]

Hey Robert, good to 'see' you again.  Doing well, we should catch up offline sometime.

I understand NI's logic, seeing how many more windows-based PDAs are out there.  My interest was specifically with the smartphone segment, and excepting perhaps the Motorola Q (which I've heard mixed reviews about), the Palm OS smartphones are generally MUCH better received than the windows mobile ones.  Even with the relatively minor upgrade that the 700p was, most reviews of the Treo 700w that I've read admit that the 650 was a much better product, and by extension, so is the 700p (although there are relatively few direct comparisons since the 700p was not out at the time of the 700w release).  In addition, there have been rumors floating around the PDA world for quite some time that Palm is on the verge of closing down the Palm OS group and replacing the current Palm OS with a Linux-based version; so that may be another factor.

I suspect that the majority of users who wish to use PDAs for mobile data acquisition are using WinMobile devices, for several reasons.  The primary one is the Windoze familiarity, with the "superior" hardware spec (note that I put that in quotes because WinMobile implementations tend to use a lot more resources than their Palm equivalents) running a close second.  The 64K limit that you mention is a definite third. 

I am disappointed myself, because I feel that there may be an untapped market for using LV for general (i.e. non-DAQ-centric) application development for devices like the Treo 650/700p.  In general, the licensing requirements for LV-Palm have made that cost-prohibitive, but I've been talking with some other Palm OS developers and with the widespread proliferation of the 650 and sites like PalmGear and Handango, I think it might be viable.  One of the big problems with writing utility programs for the Palm OS has been the relatively slow speed of writing good code, and we all know how LV helps in that regard.  In addition, honestly, an experienced LV programmer has a MUCH better grasp of UI principles than the average Palm developer, it seems.    Unfortunately, just as I've come to that conclusion and have the time to do something about it, NI pulls the Palm version of the dev kit

[rberger]

I heard about the LinuxMobile OS replacing Palm OS rumor.  I'm not sure what to believe.  That means all those Palm OS programs need to be ported over and the current Palm devlopers are SOL.  It seems NI could support embedding LV for Linux into a smaller form factor for Mobiles.  I know they did it for LV6.1 for the Zaurus (remember that?).  My bet is NI will look into this segment of the market if LinuxMobile takes off in the future.

Robert