Backward Annotate after Renumbering Parts

[pcurt]

After finishing a layout in Ultiboard, I would like to renumber each Refdes of my parts to make physical sense (left to right, top to bottom).  I go to Tools->Renumber Parts and use the mask "R*" to only renumber my resistors.  I see the following output.

Now, when I try to backward annotate these changes to my schematic, I am presented the following dialog box in Multisim.

The entire table looks correct according to the output of the Renumber operation.  However, Multisim will not complete this operation.  The OK button is greyed out and the window says "Information required for some differences."  Clicking through some options, I see I can tell Multisim "Component R4 in layout is not component R5 in schematic."  This is not the case since Ultiboard renumbered R5 to R4.  I also have the option to "Ignore" the difference.  I don't want that either.

Am I not using this dialog box properly?

[Mark J]

Hey pcurt,

It looks like this is potentially a false positive conflict. The annotation dialog thinks that some of the refdes renames are in conflict with each other and that's why it is preventing you from proceeding.

I *suspect* this problem has already been fixed, but I can't be sure unless I verify against your files. I recommend creating a support request at ni.com/ask. Please include your sample files; and then I can take a closer look at it.

Thanks,

Mark

[pcurt]

Hi Mark.

It's submitted.  Thank you for looking into this for me.

-Pete

[Mark J]

Hey,

Thanks, I received the files and was able to reproduce your behaviour.

What's happening here is that Ultiboard is renaming refdes' using a standard auto-naming convention. For example, since "R1" is not used in layout, that's the first refdes it uses, and so forth. The problem here is that R1 does exist in Multisim, but as a schematic capture only component (i.e. a virtual resistor).

So in this case, Ultiboard has renamed R5 to R1.  However in Multisim, R1 already exists, but it is a virtual resistor and thus has no matching layout part in Ultiboard. So in Multisim when you attempt to back-annotate, the dialog is properly preventing the renaming from R5 to R1, because R1 already exists in Multisim.

For now the workaround is to rename all of the virtual resistors to something that will not collide with Ultiboard's auto-renaming strategy. In your design, the five virtual resistors are R1, R4, R8, R9, R10 and can be renamed to R1_virtual, R4_virtual etc...  Then, your annotation will be able to proceed as you'd expect.

I've entered this as a usability issue, and we're working on a way to make this use-case both easier to understand and easier to resolve.

Thanks,

Mark

P.S. One side note. I noticed that your resistors aren't from the master database and presumably exist in either your user or corporate database. Please be aware that there is a known issue where refdes renaming during back-annotation will not work properly if the component in question cannot be found in the master/user/corporate database.

[pcurt]

Thanks Mark that should be relatively easy to fix in Multisim.

As for the passives in my corporate database...

I did that because I liked having manufacturer and vendor part numbers associated with all of my components.  I was able to generate a Bill of Materials, export to CSV, and upload that file to Digikey for easy ordering.  It was tedious at first, creating all of those components in the Corporate database and filling out all of the required information.  But now, as long as I have those components I don't have to worry about ordering the wrong footprint of a part.  When I was starting layout with the Master database, I was always worried I would forget to select the correct footprint for my .1uF bypass capacitors.

Is there a best / better practice for this you can recommend?

Thanks.

[Mark J]

Since I don't have your corporate database, I can't know for sure, but it appears that you've created specific passives, one per each unique footprint to intentionally restrict which footprint a given component maps to. I think this is a reasonable way to ensure that your selecting the component that will map to the correct layout part.

As for vendor and manufacturer information, once you enter this information for say a 0.1uF capacitor placed from the master database, then the next 0.1uF that you place from the master will have this information. If you have multiple 0.1uF cap's from multiple manufacturers, then again copying to the corporate database will allow you to keep your data separate. So I would say your solution is a sound one.

Mark J
National Instruments

[GaryAtAMI]

I have the same issue as mentioned above with IC renumbering. Multisim believes there is a conflict yet there is no option to force it to make the change when indeed, that is what you want. Also, Multisim is still splitting multi-gate op amps into separate parts when in the layout they are in the same part. For example, what was U1A & U1B in Multisim was renamed in Ultiboard to U4. When backward annotating, Multisim complains that INPUT REQUIRED but gives no option to GO AHEAD. So then I end up with a U4A & U10B in the schematic where U10B should be U4B. I am spending hours figuring out what it really is and fixing reference designators. I am using version 11.0.458. I read somewhere this issue was fixed in this version, but obviously has has not.

[pcurt]

With respect to your second problem,  are you using subcircuits or hierarchical blocks?  I've found that copying and pasting these blocks, or using "undo" will renumber my gates.

Also, make sure you are not using any virtual components with the same designator as layout components.  For instance, a virtual resistor "R1" in your schematic will not exist in your layout.  I change my virtual components refdes to "VR" "VC" VU", etc.

[GaryAtAMI]

Some of the designs use HBs but this occurs on single page schematics as well. No virtual componants are used.

[nestor-sg]

Hi Gary:

I was reviewing some of the postings here. I came across this report from you. I tried in 11.0 and in an internal build the scenario you describe but it is working on my installation.

I wonder if you are perhaps using a file that was imported from an earlier edition of Multisim, say 10.1 or earlier. I think I've seen the case when an old file was imported, but no forward and then back synchronization has been made to synch'em up within the new system.

On any case, I hope you do see my message, it would be great if I can get ahold of your files to replicate the issue. You could open a service request at ni.com/ask so that you can send an email, just let them know that is about this forum post (include a link) and that it has to be forwarded to Nestor.

Cheers,