Have you ever dealt with 160 sensor in one project CRIO or CDAQ?

[Ihab]

I am planning to use cRIO or cDAQ (not decided yet) in a machine condition monitoring MCM project. I am worried about Dynamic Data, since I am going to use about 80 Accelerometer 40 Tachometer and 40 Temperature sensors. The maximum number of channels I worked with was 4. Have you any idea about problems which I might face? Can any one send me a link to a VI with multiple channels (over 50) or more channels either cRIO or cDAQ. My main problem is dynamic data and user interface. Please send me your comments.

Thanks

[GerdW]

Hi lhab,

what do you understand by the term "dynamic data"? Do you talk about that bluish line outputted by ExpressVIs ("DDT") or do you refer to variable signal values?

- On a cRIO you don't use DDT as much, when using the ScanEngine you receive mostly scalar values.

- On a cRIO you don't have a user interface (usually).

- I'm currently working with cRIO and ~200 data channels - no problem so far...

- To avoid problems you have to think about organizing your data - FGVs can be a great help here...

[GregFreeman]

One big difference (other than the cDAQ is not FPGA based and the cRIO is), the cDAQ does not have an RT processor. So, although your acquisition will be deterministic on the cDAQ assuming it is hardware timed, if you need any real-time control you may be limited. Just food for thought.

On a side note, I don't think you can fit that many channels on a single cDAQ or cRIO....There may be other cards, but I know the 9234 can do accelerometer readings but it only has 4 BNC inputs. So be prepared to buy multiple chassis/controllers if you're going the cRIO/cDAQ route.

[preston_johnson]

First, you will need to determine a controller and chassis configuration which will house the 160 sensors.  If the 160 vibration sensors for MCM need to be syncrhonized, you will need a mechanism to pass the oversample clock from the vibration inputs from one chassis to another. 

Can you tell us more about the unit under test (perhaps a steam turbine generator??)

What sensors will you be using?  (for turbo machinery, eddy current proximity probes are common, coupled with seismic accelerometers)

For starters, this is the code we have used with several customers for large vibration channel count applications

https://forums.ni.com/t5/Example-Code/Embedded-High-Speed-Data-Logger-Reference-Design/ta-p/3996474

the 9082 is the preferred controller for these applications

you will want to add chassis for the needed modules to get to 160 channels

https://www.ni.com/en-us/shop/model/ni-9157.html

the universal MCM module is the 9232

https://www.ni.com/en-us/shop/model/ni-9232.html

we have done some internal mcm signal processing benchmarks here

https://forums.ni.com/t5/Past-NIWeek-Sessions/Using-CompactRIO-and-LabVIEW-for-Online-Signal-Process...

Even though the 9082 is not tested - it is two to three times as capable as the 9024 controller. 

I am happy to provide further guidance and share similar successes. 

I look forward to your posts. 

[preston_johnson]

Scan Engine does not work for vibration monitoring applications.  Typical sample rates are 10,240 samples per second for vibration measurements.  We use the waveform reference as the foundation for cRIO dynamic signal monitoring applications (high speed modules). 

https://forums.ni.com/t5/Example-Code/Reference-Application-for-NI-CompactRIO-Waveform-Acquisition/t...

[Ihab]

Hi GerdW

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I mean with Dynamic Data is the Data Type which comes out from DAQ Assistant VI when we are using NI-9234 with cDAQ chassis to Acquire  Vibration. Yes this is the blue Data Type.

Now I am thinking to use Compact RIO - NI cRIO-9023 - 781173-01 because it is reasonable price . I am going to use 12 units 12xcRIO-9023 in a Cement Plant.

GerdW can you elaborate more on your project with 200 channels? Does the project include any vibration modules? If the client need too have full spectrum analysis on the display screen- how do you handle such big amount of channels?

GerdW also would you please to elaborate more on  FGVs and its application for my case?

Many thanks in advance for your help and support.

[preston_johnson]

I'll repeat, the scan engine is not acceptable for vibration monitoring with the 9234 or 9232.  a) it does not scan fast enough and b) the scan rate is not sycnronized to the internal clocks of the DSA modules. 

You should consider either the CompactRIO vibration data logger or the CompactRIO Waveform reference design for vibration applications. 

My team has done a handful of high channel count applications using these tools. 

Still interested in learning more about the unit under test and sensors.  Other than spectrum, what other displays are you interested in?

[Ihab]

Thank you Greg Freeman for your prompt reply.

I am going to have 12 cRIO chassis or 12 cDAQ chassis for the 160 sensors. I am thinking about connecting all of them to the control room and the user interface fro full spectrum analysis of vibration signals.

Many thanks for your help and support.

[Ihab]

Thank you Preston Johnson for your very informative reply.

I am thinking to have 

NI cRIO-9023

Real-Time Controller with 256 MB DRAM, 2 GB Storage

I am going to order 12 units to cover my 160 channels. Also I am thinking to order cDaq. I still did not decide yet.

Regarding the display, we need to have separate full spectrum vibration analysis, wavelet analysis. Also RMS, and need to interface the vibration data to detect bearing faults. Also the client want to have some displays of vibration levels like Lo, Med, Hi and Hi Hi on his SCADA system from Siemens.

Would you also please elaborate on your team application who did high count channels, I am very interested in the subject.

I have three types of sensor to choose from :

1-IMI PCB 603C01 low cost industrial accelerometer.

2-786A standard accelerometer from Meggitt.

3-AC102 100mv/g from ctconline.com

I have not decided yet.

The application will  be on Cement plant. Crusher, Kiln, Cooling fans etc.

Please  Preston Johnson try help me in taking the right technical decision and mean while economical. This project if succeeded will be repeated in the second line at the Cement Plant, and so on.

Many thanks again for your help and support.

[Ihab]

Also I forget to mention that we use Tachometer to execute Order Analysis.

Thanks