Introducing LabVIEW 2009

[tst]

Kevin, let's put aside for the moment the question of whether or not NI's decision to charge separately for MS is correct and focus on the need to specifically ask for it.

Let's say that you didn't have to ask for it. That you would just get it. Now think about what would happen a year from now when you do have to pay to get it. Are you going to be any happier? You would just be in the same situation you're in today, except you would be forced to pay for the new version.

P.S. This isn't to say I don't understand your frustration. I see where you're coming from, but I think you need to pick your battles. Everyone using MS today will notice that it doesn't work and will contact NI to get it (while spending as much effort as it requires within their own organizations). It seems to me that this ship has sailed and that NI made a decision that, while certainly debatable, has some merit. It's doubtful it would change now just for those who have a hard time in getting their purchase orders. Any company (NI included) can't cater to every whim of every single customer. If only one percent of clients have that complication, I would say the need to know who the MS users are is more important than those clients' problems. It's a business decision, albeit a harsh and debatable one.

As for whether or not charging for it in a year is legitimate - I don't know, but I feel it's not a definite no. I have no idea about the actual features, so I'm just going to refer to the principle -

The opposing argument would be that NI sold you LabVIEW X with features A, B and C and support and upgrades for a year. Even though feature C is being removed from LV X+2, you still don't have to pay for it directly in LV X+1, which is the one you paid for when you paid for the SSP. Your organization might have a lot of red tape when needing to get the free feature C, but it's still free as far as NI is concerned (again, see the previous paragraph). No one is forcing you to buy X+2. I certainly understand the expectation of having your old code keep working in new versions (I would also be annoyed if it didn't), but I don't think you will find a single software company which guarantees complete compatibility and it's certainly NI's right to decide what constitues a specific package.

Microsoft is one example of a company which went to great lengths to preserve compatibilty (to the almost absurd level of being able to run at least some DOS programs natively on a modern OS 20 years after they were written Another example is that they added a feature into Windows 95 and later which would trick old programs, on an individual basis, into thinking bugs they were relying on still exist), but even they don't offer full compatibility. .NET broke VB code. Windows Vista did not support some older programs. NI is fairly good at it most of the time, but you can't really make progress in software if you always guarantee that.

[Joe_H]

Well said Yair,

Lets just get back to the original reason for this thread. If you want to continue to rant then start a new thread on the LV main board.

[hecmar.arreola]

Increase to the subscription service is about $60 for the MathScript Module renewal.  This is 20% of the $299.99 cost.  My sales rep originally said that I would have to buy the module at full cost when my subscription service is up later this year (full $299.99).  I debated with him that NI already gave this to me for $0, so therefore the only additional costs would be considered renewal.  He was sympathetic to my position, but said that according to their quote system he could only quote me $299.99 for the module this year because it did not show that I already owned the module.

He later called me back and said that it will be the $60 as a renewal and not the $299.99 but he could not generate a quote for me at this time.  He said that this was a "marketing" decision and that "sales" is not happy because of the customer backlash from this.  He said that he will relay my concerns further up the chain.

$60 isn't terrible, but something I can't say I'm happy about.

In response to some people and the discussion regarding the VI Analyzer: I was able to install and activate the VI Analyzer with my Developer Suite serial number.  It looks like it is fully functional and I have not purchased this module.  Maybe it is a feature that has been "grandfathered"?  Or, it may be a bug.

@Joe_H - A National Instruments representative, Jeffery, ask the question "What do you use MathScript for" (paraphrased) in this thread so it makes sense that people continue to respond to the issue in this thread.  Although I do understand that people looking for discussions regarding new features (not removed features) in this threat may feel like the information is burried under the weight of the MathScript discussion.

[kmcdevitt]

tst,

All of us NI Developer Suite Users on current SSP own the MathScript.

There should not be any need to argue or debate or discuss this at all.

National Instruments needs to honor the contract that goes with the SSP that we paid for.

They have chosen to charge separately for it for new purchases and upgrades.  I think this is fair.

They have chosen to charge separately for its SSP in the future for MathScript.  I think this is fair.

However they need honor what we have paid for.  Its in the SSP contract.

National Instruments needs to do the right thing.

Personally I dislike all this discussion.

I am dismayed that people just don't get it that NI Developer Suite customers on current SSP are entitled  to it.

I find this appalling and horrific.

Tired, frustrated, disillusioned, Kevin. 

[Joe_H]

I still say that if you want to rant about the "Lack of MS" then do it in another thread. Preferably in the LabVIEW Mathscript RT Module board. I think if we put the RANTS about it over there and leave this thread to LV 2009 it will be better for all.

[kmcdevitt]

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Joe_H wrote: 

Well said Yair,

Lets just get back to the original reason for this thread. If you want to continue to rant then start a new thread on the LV main board.

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Joe_H wrote: 

I still say that if you want to rant about the "Lack of MS" then do it in another thread. Preferably in the LabVIEW Mathscript RT Module board. I think if we put the RANTS about it over there and leave this thread to LV 2009 it will be better for all. 

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Joe,

Jeffrey P., an actual LabVIEW Product Manager from National Instruments, who is specifically responsible for the MathScript Modules, has requested in this actual thread for feedback on MathScript.  He wants to know who uses it and how and what we use it for.  Well guess what?  He also took it away from us just before he asked us how we like the New Updated Mathscript.  Does anybody see anything ironic here?

I am sure that all of the NI Sales Person's little PacMan Icons will be rolling over with laughter at those who can fooled into repurchasing something they already own.

Kevin.  

[kmcdevitt]

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Nickerbocker wrote:

Increase to the subscription service is about $60 for the MathScript Modulerenewal.  This is 20% of the $299.99 cost.  My sales rep originallysaid that I would have to buy the module at full cost when my subscriptionservice is up later this year (full $299.99).  I debated with him that NIalready gave this to me for $0, so therefore the only additional costs would beconsidered renewal.  He was sympathetic to my position, but said thataccording to their quote system he could only quote me $299.99 for the modulethis year because it did not show that I already owned the module.

He later called me back and said that it will be the $60 as a renewal andnot the $299.99 but he could not generate a quote for me at this time.  Hesaid that this was a "marketing" decision and that "sales"is not happy because of the customer backlash from this.  He said that he will relay my concernsfurther up the chain.

$60 isn't terrible, but something I can't say I'm happy about.

In response to some people and the discussion regarding the VI Analyzer: Iwas able to install and activate the VI Analyzer with my Developer Suite serialnumber.  It looks like it is fully functional and I have not purchasedthis module.  Maybe it is a feature that has been "grandfathered"? Or, it may be a bug.

@Joe_H - A National Instruments representative, Jeffery, ask the question "What do you use MathScript for" (paraphrased) in this thread so it makes sense that people continue to respond to the issue in this thread.  Although I do understand that people looking for discussions regarding new features (not removed features) in this threat may feel like the information is burried under the weight of the MathScript discussion.

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Nickerbocker,

Thanks for the additional info.  MathScript appears to cost $499 for LabVIEW users or $299 for Developer Suite users.  So either way one buys it, the $60 in SSP for it is about 12% to 20%.  I think thats fair and would be happy about that.  $60 is not terrible.  It is resonable in my opinion.  Thats why I have been paying for the SSP.  It entitles me to the upgrade of the products that I have on current SSP.  It's really not that difficult of a concept to understand.  So I am perplexed as to why National Instruments has chosen to break the promise of the SSP.  There really shouldn't be any need for this discussion.  It should never have even come up.  Yes, Nickerbocker, you are correct, and Im on your side. 

Kevin.

[Joe_H]

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kmcdevitt wrote:

Joe,

Jeffrey P., an actual LabVIEW Product Manager from National Instruments, who is specifically responsible for the MathScript Modules, has requested in this actual thread for feedback on MathScript.  He wants to know who uses it and how and what we use it for.  Well guess what?  He also took it away from us just before he asked us how we like the New Updated Mathscript.  Does anybody see anything ironic here?

I am sure that all of the NI Sales Person's little PacMan Icons will be rolling over with laughter at those who can fooled into repurchasing something they already own.

Kevin.  

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Kevin,

This thread was started so that people could come here and see all the goodies LV 2009 has to offer or the lack thereof. Now the thread has turned into a whine and gripe session, and anyone coming to it and trying to find out anything about LV 2009 will not be able to do so because of the MS discussion.

Yes Jeff P (I know him personally) did ask to know who is using MS but he did not say to do it all in this thread and all I am saying is that I agree with what you have said and I do not like it either (I do not even use MS), and I have expressed it to all the people I know at NI, but if you want to continue to rant then start a new discussion somewhere and lets get back to the subject of the thread.

I do not think that Jeff P will mind, will ya Jeff.

Oh well I guess this thread being about LV2009 is pretty much dead anyway.

[kmcdevitt]

Joe,

You are correct of course.

I think we should all just drop the MathScript ranting, on both sides.

Sorry that I have been an unmitigated.  I guess its just what I am.

Anyway we should all be amazed what has come out of NI Week this year.

It has been quite spectacular with all the anouncements.

Personally I am most excited about several things that I have been waiting for for years.

Math Script on Real Time.

The latest version of NI-SYNC being compatible with the latest version of LabVIEW.

The PXI-6682 and IRIG-B and IEEE-1588 being supported in LabVIEW Real Time.

Think of all that fun all of us LabVIEW Real Time will be having with Real-Time Hypervisor for Windows.

Kevin. 

Message Edited by kmcdevitt on 08-20-2009 06:16 PM

[smercurio_fc]

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Joe_H wrote:

Oh well I guess this thread being about LV2009 is pretty much dead anyway.

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I think the splash screen is spiffy. Does that help?