Running LabVIEW 7.1 on Windows 2003 Server with Terminal Services

[ITIQ]

We are setting up a newtork based solution with LabView. I have looked for documentation on installing LV 7.1 on a Windows 2003 server to run the applications and then have destkops connect to it. Can this be done with a Terminal Services Access solution? Another words, if we were to purchase the LV Volume License Manager, can you install LV 7.1 onto a Windows 2003 server and run the application through TS across a 1GB backbone from the desktop, which makes the server do all the processing?

[Philip_Courtois]

To run the LabVIEW Development environment from client machines without installing it on them will violate the license agreement and is not possible with newer versions of LabVIEW.

The LabVIEW Volume License Manager lets you install LabVIEW on several machines, which is different than the above.

Remember that you can use VI Server functions to call VIs on other machines on the network. In this case you can keep the intensive processing on a powerful machine, while having the user interface on the client. The client application can even be an executable if you want.

I hope this answered your question.

Best regards,
Philip C.
Applications Engineer
National Instruments
www.ni.com/ask

[ITIQ]

What if we were to install LabVIEW on the Server and have the neccessary licenses but run all the processing off of the server through Terminal Services? Is that okay, according to license issues?

So basically what you have stated is that we can use the server to "call" processes from, in this case, a Windows 2003 server, which could run these processes while running the client, or LabVIEW application on the PC?

[Methis Elddir]

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:36:28 -0500, Philip C. wrote:
> To run the LabVIEW Development environment from client machines without
> installing it on them will violate the license agreement and is not
> possible with newer versions of LabVIEW.

This is an interesting topic. What is NI's licensing package for
customers that only use thin client networks for their LV developers? I'm
talking about "real" thin clients too, i.e. no hard drive, cdrom, or
floppy; just NIC w/boot ROM, memory, and a processor.

In the case of a thin client, LV will not be installed or run locally.
From what I've read in the EULA, this does not violate the agreement
because LV is only loaded into memory (multiple times) on the server.

Perhaps I've missed some fine print ... let
me know if I'm wrong.

[ITIQ]

By running a session through Terminal Services you are NOT running anything on the desktop it all runs on the server. So if the software was installed on the server and you had the correct number of licenses that you allow to connect through Terminal Services, would this not be allowed under the EULA?

I am not sure if the question is if the license is valid or not, I am first just trying to figure out if you can even install LV on a Windows 2003 server and run it through a Terminal Services Session.

I see the comments on calling VIs through LV. I am a Network Engineer not a LV Developer, so unfortunately I do not know what a VI is. All I am looking to do is run low end PCs with LV if I have to, but use the server as the workhorse to process
all sims etc.

[Methis Elddir]

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 07:42:13 -0500, ITIQ wrote:

> By running a session through Terminal Services you are NOT running
> anything on the desktop it all runs on the server. So if the software
> was installed on the server and you had the correct number of licenses
> that you allow to connect through Terminal Services, would this not be
> allowed under the EULA?

Sorry for the delay. I'm surprised Philip didn't get back to us... Phil
are you there? Based on his comments, I think he misunderstands your
situation (no offense Phil).

You and I are both talking about the same thing. You basically want a
terminal server license. NI will not provide it. They told me (over the
phone) to get a multi-seat license (MSL). IMO, that's unacceptable. I
expect a LV license taylored specifically for thin client networks. A
multi-seat license is for -->installing<-- on multiple machines. It
conforms to a totally different set of rules. One big one, an MSL assumes
that you intend to run LV locally to interact with DAQ hardware. Since
this won't be done with the thin client, you shouldn't have to pay for it.


> I am not sure if the question is if the license is valid or not, I am
> first just trying to figure out if you can even install LV on a Windows
> 2003 server and run it through a Terminal Services Session.

Since you are talking about a Microsoft operating system, I would say this
cannot be done without some additional/costly junk installed.

Here's another option. If the people you're supporting don't have any
platform dependent things like ActiveX in their LV applications, you
should consider using a Linux-based terminal server. I know for a fact it
works.

I've assisted in setting up a network like this before:

* One Linux terminal server with LabVIEW for Linux (Full Dev)

* One WinXP box on the network with LabVIEW for Win (Prof Dev)

* 5 cheap thin clients

They developed LabVIEW source code on the thin clients and then compiled
packages on the WinXP box for distribution to their customers. The WinXP
was only used for compiles so they just hopped on when necessary. The
eventual plan is for the thin clients to simply open a RemoteDesktop
(using RDP) terminal session and do the compiles from there. I'm not sure
how to do that yet... on the Windows side.


> I see the comments on calling VIs through LV. I am a Network Engineer
> not a LV Developer, so unfortunately I do not know what a VI is. All I
> am looking to do is run low end PCs with LV if I have to, but use the
> server as the workhorse to process all sims etc.

Phil must have thought you needed a LV application to access the front
panel controls of another LV application running on a remote machine. The
VI server is handy in that area but useless in your case.

Hey, you wanna hear about cheap network infrastructure? We bought our
thin client boxes for $15 each! Go to ltsp.org if you want more info on
configuring Linux as a terminal server.

You, and anyone else, can also email me at gnu_voodoo [at] netzero [dot]
com for questions/comments.

[Philip_Courtois]

Hi Methis,

Since thin clients aren�t mentioned in the license agreement, I had to check my resources to verify our policy on this matter. Here�s the deal:

Using LabVIEW on thin clients, where all the processing is done on the server is fine in our license agreement, as long as you have a license for each thin client that would be used to run LabVIEW.

What we don't allow is a server installation where full PC clients try to run LabVIEW locally by running the EXE off the server.

Please notice that even with the accepted solution above, Windows 2003 Server is not a validated operating system, so if you experience OS specific issues, we can�t promise to help you.


I hope this makes things a little clearer.

Best r
egards,
Philip C.
Applications Engineer
National Instruments
www.ni.com/ask

[shoneill]

OK, here's another spin on this topic which was recently (05.July.2005) discussed elsewhere.

I (and others) have found that using Win XPs Remote desktop facility can be quite useful when debugging a system, allowing the user to at least drink a coffee while debugging a machine which is located elsewhere (where coffee is banned 😞 ).

Although this isn't really a server/client issue, I do see parallels between this and what was previously discussed here.  An additional difference is that the "user" on the PC actually running the LV software will be logged out locally while the remote desktop software is running.  This means that there can actually only ever be one user logged in and using LV at any time.  In this sense it's quite different from a true server/client system where it would be possible to create multiple instances of the development environement.

The Licensing agreement (I don't know which version, it was posted by Tst here) states

"All of the SOFTWARE must be installed and used on the same computer. You are not authorized under the single seat license to install or use any of the SOFTWARE on multiple computers, a network storage device, or other storage device"

It's not being installed AND used on the same computer.  It's only installed on one computer, and only usable on one computer at a time, it's just a different computer than it's installed on.  It's not being installed or used simultaneously on multiple computers, but it comes pretty close.  So what's the bottom line?  Do I violate NIs licensing agreement by using the remote desktop feature?

I feel yes, I hope no.

Can yomeone clear this up?

Shane.

[tst]

Just to clear it up, the text is from version 7.0, paragraph 2.A and the bold and underlining effects do not appear in the original text.

[Philip_Courtois]

Hi Shane,

Being from the worlds third most coffee drinking nation, I personally have to support your brilliant argument for Remote Desktopping. However, to be on the safe side and to verify the interpretation of the license agreement, we need to raise the question to the responsible license expert. I'll try to get an answer for you.

Let us see if this means more or less coffee in the future...