GE fanuc PLC & Lookout

[Khalid]

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@erblock wrote:


Consider that GE is not your run-of-the-mill startup company, that this product had a huge footing before anything like Lookout existed, and that they make huge amounts of cash pushing and selling someone else's s
oftware package "Cimplicity" by a major automation software competitor.


Ed"

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This ain't directly related to the issue but wanted to point out that since Ed's post, GE-Fanuc has not only acquired the Cimplicity package, but also Intellution iFix.

Khalid

[erblock]

OK reandy...but now you don't know why or what has caused the "force" without significant support logic. This would be very cumbersome for the many I's M's and Q's we potentially need to force in our system.

Forcing and toggling is the most common method for getting out of a jam due to equipment failure. The Logicmaster and other packages have a simple table method of monitoring for forces so you can easily check if one is forced in error. Of course this is also readily visible in logic view also.

It would be very nice to have lookout able to display these tables, but to do that it must be able to read the extra bit code to know the value is forced or not forced. Even better if lookout could actually toggle the force.

I'm back....researching and gearing up for upgrade to Lookout 6.

[reandy]

Hi Erblock,

I understand that forcing is very useful in troubleshooting/temporary repair situations. When I have a problem with something, I’ll start the ladder programmer, so I can see what is causing this output to "misbehave". So, I can force right from there if I need to.

If I understand your point of view, you want to be able to force directly from Lookout. I have never associated "forcing" with anything other than PLC programming packages. (LogicMaster, VersaPro, RSLogix, etc.), so this is a new concept to me, and I would like to understand your thoughts on this. In my experience, I rarely force something.

I use Lookout as MMI/SCADA. I put very little logic in Lookout. My system is designed to operate in its “current state” if the MMI PC crashes/network goes down, etc. If the system is in automatic, all the interlocks, timers, etc. are still clicking away, controlling it, from the PLC.

In my experience, when something isn’t working correctly, I’m in the ladder logic to see why “this output” isn’t ON. Usually I find that it is some input device that has failed. (prox switch, temp probe, flow switch, etc.) In these cases, I will probably force the INPUT (to simulate that the failed device is operating). Then repair the input device, and remove the force.

Do you know of any other packages (FactoryLink, RSView, WonderWare, Intellution, etc.) that allows “forcing”?

Rich

p.s. We are defining “forcing” as the Force Table in the PLC, aren’t we? (bit is blinking in LogicMaster)

[erblock]

Well the reasons are real....

Logic master does to much!  If I want to view logic, toggle or force some (M) and or (Q)coils, I don't want to have someone unfamiliar with Logicmaster end up editing and ruining the PLC embedded logic, or just as bad sometimes, simple get into a "Logic Not Equal" condition.  I never liked Logicmaster because of its limited security and how easily someone can corrupt logic, or just make the Logicmaster unusable for live monitoring and toggling due to mis-keying.

Logicmaster is ugly...

Logicmaster uses up a serial port...

Quite honestly, I would be happy if Lookout simply had the ability to read overide status on these registers.  That would be usefull in alarming abnormal conditions.  For example, we routinely force off some alarms while performing manual operations, and the operator is supposed to remove the forces when he is done.  I can have Lookout evaluate bits to sequence alarming, but I cannot truly know that all is as it is supposed to be unless I can grid the forces.

Now if NI gave me that ability to read the force bit...it would make sense to ME...to also have the write ability on the force bit toggle.

I'm with you on the PLC "isolation" concept, but Lookout could serve me well on many instances of force bit control and indication without putting the PLC and it's logic or programing folders at risk!

Simply...Lookout would be a better solution than Logicmaster for day to day operations.  And programming/security risk at the logicmaster console could be significantly reduced.

Ed

Ahh...almost forgot...   Lookout is a lot better looking and I can greatly enhance human factors performance with its beauty! 

Message Edited by erblock on 08-25-2005 01:58 AM