Introducing LabVIEW 2009

[parthabe]

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kmcdevitt wrote:

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Dennis,

Database Toolkit IS a component included as part of the NI Developer Suite Core package.

You don't have to pay extra for it if you own any of the Developer Suites.  It is part of the Core.

You actually pay for it when you purchase the Dev Suite.

Kevin.

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To me, the LV Core IS only the PDS or the FDS + App Builder, not even the free Device Drivers that come along with it.

And MathScript was in it, now they are selling it seperately, which they should not do IMO.

[Dennis_Knutson]

Well, first off, what I resent is people talking about features and toolkits being removed - plural. Yes, NI has removed one toolkit from LabVIEW but you have not paid something for which you have not received since the one toolkit is still available to you at no cost. That is my basic understanding. If you do not wish to renew your license the next time, that is a decision you can make and one which I would understand. But, the way I see it, users have been given a one year warning that their costs are going to go up. Who knows. Maybe in a year the base Dev suit will include Mathscript. I'd even trade it for the Database toolkit which costs more and is much less useful, even though every application I've written in the last 10 years makes extensive use of databases.

Even though I have never really used the Mathscript functions (they were just too slow when I first tried them), I've requested the new (and free) license just to have it around.  I'll decide in a year

[hecmar.arreola]

@ Dennis - There is a cost to us.  You admit that it is a feature you don't use, so will you please stop dismissing other people's valid complaints and try to put yourself in their shoes.  A feature that WE (people who have paid NI lots of money in software and hardware) has been taken away from us.  It is a big deal.  If it were a feature that you used regularly you would be outraged.  If there were a way to give negative kudoes to your post I would.

[Dennis_Knutson]

You still have not convinced me that there is any cost to you. What does the $0 license fee mean? I agree that there will be a cost in the future. And my company has also paid a lot of money for the software and even if I did use it, I would not be at all enraged since I would be getting it for $0! All it cost me was 5 minutes to fill in a purchase order.

I there were a way to give negative kudos to ranting, I would give them as well.

[hecmar.arreola]

@ Dennis: Time costs money, and NI is taking the time out of their customers to request a feature THEY ALREADY PAID for.  <<period>> end of discussion, if you don't understand that I feel sorry for you.  

Further, can you think past a couple of months?  Buisness operate by projecting beyond what the current state of things are right here and now.  For me, my subscription is up in December.  If I do not renew WITH the MathScript RT Module option, I will not get the full bennefit of my subscription service next year.  The cost is that the subscription service (in order maintain the same feature set) will be increased.  The cost is not $0.

Just because this doesn't effect you, you think it is ok to stomp on those whom it does effect and I'm fed up with it.  You've said what you think, and everyone else is getting their turn to say what they think. 

[parthabe]

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Dennis Knutson wrote:

All it cost me was 5 minutes to fill in a purchase order.

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It is not the case in so many other companies where we have to run among IT, Purchase & Admin depts to get it signed & approved, even if something is for free/freely downloadable.

Message Edited by parthabe on 08-18-2009 11:54 PM

[geirove]

Hello Nickerbocker & Jeffery

What NI is doing with the Mathscript Module is also offending me & my company. We are using Mathscript in the same way as Nickerbocker.

However, we are equally offended by the fact that NI stopped supporting the Statediagram Toolkit that we have used in several Industrial Projects. In this case NI claimed that the Statechart Module was a substitute, which it is not: I will not get started on that subject again, simply search for my name and  "Statediagram Toolkit" to read how I think NI is dropping the ball by not supporting customers with investements in a Technology NI introduced.

NI: You are shooting yourself in the foot by continuing down this path.

Yes the new features in LV 2009 is good news, but not revolutionary: LV 2009 contains "new" features that should have been there years ago compared to other modern IDEs.

Geir Ove

[parthabe]

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geirove wrote:

Yes the new features in LV 2009 is good news, but not revolutionary: LV 2009 contains "new" features that should have been there years ago compared to other modern IDEs.

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200% true!

Didnt even have the rt-click custom short-cut menu (for programmers) till 7.1.

[kmcdevitt]

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Dennis Knutson wrote:

The dev suite is not the same thing as the base, full, or pro versions of LabVIEW and I stand by my statement - the database toolkit is a separate component as 10Degree seemed not to understand. You restated what I said about the dev suite. 

The only component that has been removed is Mathscript.  If you or 10Degree can name anything else that has been removed, I would like to know about it. On the other hand, over the years, numerous components have been added (event structures, LVOOP, scripting, timed loops, to name just a few) and I would have much more sympathy if you and the rest of the Mathscript users were compeltely dropped. But, you are not. You get to use it for one more year without paying for it.

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Dennis,

Yes, one can currently buy one of the following packages.

1) LabVIEW Base

2) LabVIEW Full

3) LabVIEW Professional

4) LabVIEW Developer Suite - Core

5) LabVIEW Developer Suite - Automated Test Bundle

6) LabVIEW Developer Suite - Industrial Measurement and Control Bundle

7) LabVIEW Developer Suite - Prototyping and Embedded Design Bundle

One can also add additional components such as toolkits and modules. 

And YES Dennis, they are taking components out of these packages.  And YES Dennis we will be paying for them again, if not immediately, then certainly within a year.

Those of us that have active SSP are in fact paying for these components to be upgraded, updated, and have bugs fixed, and to receive support.

We are also paying, while on active SSP, to have the development software be more widely deployable on the latest hardware.  That way we can all enjoy using our LabVIEW on new hardware when the are introduced.  Such as M Series, USB Series, WiFi Series, X Series, ......

They have taken the VI Analyzer out of most of those 7 Packages above.

They have taken the Mathscript out of most of those 7 Packages above.

Look Dennis, NI knows who is intitled to the Mathscript.  Who, well its ovious, its the ones that already have it.  Its not that difficult.  They don't need to take these components away from us.  We have already paid for them.  We should not have to OPT IN.  It ridicules to have to OPT IN.  It is ludicrous.

Dennis, I just don't understand where your insensitivity for others come from.

I am sure that there won't be this insensitivity towards you, when they take away one of your bread and butter LabVIEW components.

Kevin.

[smercurio_fc]

I have not participated in this Mathscript discussion, but may I suggest that we stop sniping at each other regarding this Mathscript inclusion/lack-thereof, regardless of which side of the fence you fall in, and concentrate on the new features of LabVIEW 2009 (which was the original purpose of this thread). Perhaps a separate thread on this specific subject where folks can vent their frustration at NI rather than at each other?