Ultiboard 11 - New design layout challenges

[AVPro]

Hello again NI team,

We have just recently started designing new PCBs using Ultiboard 11.0.1, and we've run into several challenges with the software, on issues ranging from setting up Global Preferences, to basic trace routing. Below are some of the issues we've discovered this past week:

• Trace vias can be moved and disconnected from their trace, and cannot be used to drag a trace by themselves.
• It is impossible to move two traces connected with a via without either creating two opposing all-angle traces, or disconnecting the trace from the next vectors.
• Vias apparently only come in two sizes; standard and micro. (no drop-down for multiple sizes within one design)
• Without any explanation, the ability to drag a component and have the trace redraw can be lost, whether with manually drawn traces or follow me traces. (‘Part drag’ in Global Prefs. was still checked)
• Redrawn traces change path significantly despite net topology set to ‘shortest’.
• If a trace is manually moved, attached 90 degree bends are lost. UB11 automatically inserts rounded/chamfered corners.
• If you move the trace further out, original geometry is lost altogether.
• DRC filters are not saved within the PCB, and must be re-added every time the file is opened.
• Layer visibility toggling has no keyboard shortcut. Only option is a two-click process in design toolbox.
• ‘Global Preferences’ such as color scheme, are not saved to the program, only the PCB. Newly created scheme settings are not saved once the program is exited.
• Traces drawn using ‘follow me’ can be attached off-grid. There is no clear way to move the trace back onto the grid. This makes manual adjustment impossible without redrawing the entire trace.
• Manual moving using the mouse to drag, or pasting of copied traces or objects results in 0.5 mil spacing, despite all PCB grids being set to 5.0 mil or higher.
• A section of a trace that is re-routed can become a separate piece of a trace, even when perfectly inline with the sections attached to it. This necessitates multiple selections when attempting to move a single trace run, or deleting and rerouting the trace manually.

We are eager to use many of the advanced features available in this software, but these issues are making the process quite tedious. Are there functions we are overlooking?

[_user32]

AVPro,

Hello.  There are a few things here that we can help with through some simple work arounds, some things have been sent in as feature requests... others I'll need to look at directly to reproduce and see if there is something that can be done.  Please send me an email to setup an online discussion (patrick.noonan@ni.com).

Here are my intial thoughts - but we are certainly interested in helping you out and making you successful using the tool.   Also v12 may have addressed some of these things, but I'll need to follow up directly to verify....

• Trace vias can be moved and disconnected from their trace, and cannot be used to drag a trace by themselves.
• It is impossible to move two traces connected with a via without either creating two opposing all-angle traces, or disconnecting the trace from the next vectors.

Try this:   highlight the VIA and the connecting trace segment(s) by drawing a box with the mouse around the via and the segments of interest.   Now when you move the via with the arrow keys, the traces should 'rubber band' with the VIA.    I agree its not as nice as just dragging the VIAs and having the traces move with the VIA, but its the best work around I have for now.

• Vias apparently only come in two sizes; standard and micro. (no drop-down for multiple sizes within one design)

Yes, this is an active feature request into R&D - better VIA management / sizing.   You can adjust the VIA one by one (and adjust) but you can only setup/select 1 standard via as default and adjust as needed throughout the design.  This is something I have tried to prioritized with R&D.

• Without any explanation, the ability to drag a component and have the trace redraw can be lost, whether with manually drawn traces or follow me traces. (‘Part drag’ in Global Prefs. was still checked)
• Redrawn traces change path significantly despite net topology set to ‘shortest’.
• If a trace is manually moved, attached 90 degree bends are lost. UB11 automatically inserts rounded/chamfered corners.
• If you move the trace further out, original geometry is lost altogether.

I think many of these things have been improved in UBv12, however I think we need to take a look at the design specifically.   You can use the <space> key to change the geometry as you are routing, but I am not sure about preserving redraw (lets look at in both v11 and v12).

• DRC filters are not saved within the PCB, and must be re-added every time the file is opened.

We'll have to check on this for v12 - I think this was addressed.

• Layer visibility toggling has no keyboard shortcut. Only option is a two-click process in design toolbox.

I think you are correct from a visibility standpoint, but when routing you can setup 'preferred layers' - F(X) keys and toggle between layers when routing (Q key in v12).  There are some suggested tricks to setting up visibility in UB - as an example if you have a ground plane, I suggest coloring that a dark color (gray) and then it will appear always in the background no matter the layer visibility settings.

• ‘Global Preferences’ such as color scheme, are not saved to the program, only the PCB. Newly created scheme settings are not saved once the program is exited.

Ok - agreed - this should be changed to a universal scheme setting as a default.

• Traces drawn using ‘follow me’ can be attached off-grid. There is no clear way to move the trace back onto the grid. This makes manual adjustment impossible without redrawing the entire trace.
• Manual moving using the mouse to drag, or pasting of copied traces or objects results in 0.5 mil spacing, despite all PCB grids being set to 5.0 mil or higher.

Ok - I'll need some additional information on this - can you send me a direct email so we can setup a dialog (patrick.noonan@ni.com).

• A section of a trace that is re-routed can become a separate piece of a trace, even when perfectly inline with the sections attached to it. This necessitates multiple selections when attempting to move a single trace run, or deleting and rerouting the trace manually.

Is the net settings getting changed?   Again lets look at this and we'll see what can be done (I'll try in v12 and see if its better).

Regards,

Pat Noonan

[Kleven]

Hi Patrick, AVPro:

I've experienced several of these issues myself and I am very interested in the progress of any discussions and resolutions to these issues that might be reached outside of this forum.

Please, if possible, update this thread with the progress of your discussions.  If for some reason that's not possible I would like to contact you (Patrick) to follow these issues.

Thank You!

Kleven

[_user32]

Kleven,

I've addressed some of the issues directly with the user that posted.   I will also ask the NI Application Engineers to respond as well (most of these questions are from v11, and some I believe have been addressed in v12) but the AEs can give any additional commentary as needed.   If you are experiencing additional issues not addressed here, please contact myself or one of the NI Application Engineers for assistance...

- Trace/VIA moves - confirmed this can be done.  See attachment for detailed steps.

- VIA sizes - confirmed there is only 1 standard VIA setting (and a micro VIA).  The best practice is to set for the most common used in a design and then you can adjust the hole/annular ring on a per VIA basis as needed.   Also you can use the VIA tab in the spreadsheet view to easily change multiple VIAs at once (change 'Use design rules' to a specific value for both Pad diameter (annular ring) / Drill diameter (finished hole size) settings).

- Various issues with trace redrawing (listed above).  I think some of these issues are addressed in v12.  If there are any specific issues you're advised to contact NI to look at the exact use case instance.   We are currently looking into some of the issues related to nudging/moving a trace and having it 'fall' off grid if a coarse copper grid is set.   We believe it has something to do with the combination of visible and copper grid, but R&D is looking into it.   The current best recommendation is to redraw a trace if it absolutely needs to be on grid when a minor adjustment is needed (a newly drawn trace using one of the manual drawing methods will always follow the copper grid settings).   I can foresee in some cases, the user may want to nudge a trace off grid (maybe routing in between a part with a tight pitch) to allow the routing to complete successfully, but this may need to be addressed by R&D. 

- DRC filters.  Yes this still appears to be functioning the same in v12 as in v11 (DRC filters reset even when Ultiboard PCB project is saved).  Will request R&D to look into.

- Layer visibility toggling.  To make a toggling feature will require R&D to look into.  (However see suggestion above.  Try setting the inner layers to a darker color if they contain a plane and use the 'Q' key to easily route between 2 user selected layers.).

Note there are some Ultiboard best practices documents that we have available (we are finalizing updates to match settings for v12) and these should greatly help anyone with some common placement and routing tasks in Ultiboard.

Regards,

Pat

[Kleven]

Hi Patrick,

Thanks for the quick reply.

As for the via move best practices, I did not realize that was even possible so I will try it out.  Has there been a feature request made to R&D to allow for a setting in the PCB Settings to make this behavior the default behavior whenever a via is selected and moved?  I realize this is not a show-stopper type issue but I have wasted more time than I care to try and account for dealing with this behavior.

I will try to follow up with a new thread highlighting some of the other issues I've encountered.

Thanks again!

Kleven

[_user32]

Kleven,

Yes, the work around can help with most, but less steps is better and so it has been requested to be simplified with a simple combined drag/reroute trace as the default behavior (drag the VIA and every attached trace segment moves automatically).  

Please keep the feedback coming as this is the method (along with direct customer interactions) we use to improve the product.

- Pat N